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About Episode 9

A professor, musician and concertmaster all in one! Violinist Lenora-Marya Anop joins host Ron Klemm and Maestro A. Dennis Sparger to discuss the challenges and rewards of interpreting Bach's music and more. She shares the story of her musical journey, from her start with Suzuki lessons at age three to her most recent triumph at Carnegie Hall. In her role as Concertmaster with The Bach Society Orchestra for nearly 25 years, her passion for Bach's music continues to shine, and her joyful, collaborative spirit continues to bring musical magic to the stage.

About Episode 8

Explore the intriguing world of Johann Sebastian Bach with this captivating Bach Talk episode featuring tenor, author, historian, and Bach expert David Gordon. Join host Ron Klemm as they uncover fascinating details about Bach's daily life in Leipzig, Germany during the 18th century. Gordon challenges misconceptions about Bach as a stern figure, highlighting his sense of humor, love of life and the importance of his family. Don’t miss the opportunity to gain a unique perspective on Bach's life and times.

Transcription

Ron Klemm (00:00)
This is Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (00:11)
No, this is not Bach. 

David Gordon (00:15)
Down by the Salley Garden My love and I did meet. 

Ron Klemm (00:26)
But there is a connection. 

David Gordon (00:28)
She walked the Salley Gardens with little snow-white feet. 

Ron Klemm (00:40)
I'll explain in a moment. 

David Gordon (00:42)
She bid me take life easy as the leaves grow on the trees. 

Ron Klemm (00:54)
For now, let's just enjoy.

Ron Klemm (01:08)
He's a Bach specialist who sometimes finds himself outside the box.

Ron Klemm (02:10)
The iridescent voice of tenor, David Gordon, Outside the Box was the title of his most recent concert in Carmel, California. That was a track from that concert. The traditional folk song with words from the great Irish poet, William Butler Yeats. Hello, I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to Bach Talk. By his own admission, David Gordon has always led parallel musical lives.

For decades, he's been a distinguished classical music tenor soloist, who's made his mark with great opera companies and symphony orchestras around the globe. Here's some mind-boggling trivia. David made his United States concert debut at Powell Symphony Hall in 1972 with The Bach Society of Saint Louis.

These days, David no longer sings on the classical stage, but is still, as he says, quite securely strapped to his guitar. Drawing on a lifetime of concerts and centuries of music, David creates unique programs of songs and poetry interwoven with colorful, historical narratives. Historical narrative. That's the aspect we want to focus on today.

David Gordon is, perhaps above all else, a historian. And he's written a book that is so fascinating, so intriguing, The Bach Society has linked it to our own website. You'll want a copy for yourself, I'm sure. So while you listen to David and I talk about it, feel free to wander over to BachSociety.org, click on About, and there you'll find The Little Bach Book.

We talked to tenor, author, historian, and friend, David Gordon, from his home in Pacific Grove, California. 

David Gordon (04:12)
I have always been a history buff, and I'm aware that very often we learn about history by learning the dates of battles and the names of kings. That's a kind of an overstatement, but it's not too far from the truth.

And I've always been interested in how people lived. In olden times, I grew up in a very beautiful area of southeastern Pennsylvania, north of Philadelphia, along the Delaware River in beautiful Bucks County. And my grandparents lived right up the road in a house that was built in 1758. And there was a, there was just tons of 18th-century revolutionary colonial history in the area where I grew up.

And I became interested in daily life. How did they live? How did they cook? I'm sort of interested in that for all eras of history. And  I began to midway through my career, I began to receive invitations to give lectures on Bach and his music, particularly pre-concert lectures for people who are going to hear the music.

And while I talk about the individual pieces of music, I, began to Insert vignettes of daily life that I hoped would give people a greater appreciation for what Bach had to go through to just write his music. What was his daily life like? And  I took in, for example, I have a little 18th-century inkwell and I made some quill pens and I took it in and just set it on the podium.

I didn't mention it until the very end. I was talking about the St. Matthew Passion. And I said, now, you're going to go upstairs now to the concert hall, and you're going to hear this great work written for two choruses and two orchestras and a bunch of soloists and unusual instruments, and it's going to last about three hours.

And I picked up one of the quill pens, and I said, every note you hear was written with one of these and I saw the look in people's eye because Show and tell is better than tell I could have said every note You hear was written by with a with a quill pen or something and people imagine the quill pen in the high school play Which is a long ostrich quill giant.

Ron Klemm (06:41)
Right, right.

David Gordon (06:42)
And, the quill pens that Bach was using and buying in bulk were just feathers out of the left-hand wing of the goose. It's the left-hand wing because that's the one that curls away from the right-handed writer's arm. 

Ron Klemm (06:58)
Oh, really? 

David Gordon (06:58)
Yeah. Isn't that, isn't that this, all this crazy little trivia. 

Ron Klemm (07:01)
So there's, so if you were left-handed, you'd have to get a quill from the other side of the goose. 

David Gordon (07:06)
That's correct. Yes. If you look at a quill, you, if you look at a, at a, at a feather, a goose feather, this is a, the main feather from the wing of the goose and it, it curves in a certain way.

And so you want it to kind of curve away from you. When I began to use props like this, or a fake candle that I had made to, to look like a candle that would have been used in 1720s, I saw the glow in people's eyes that this was fascinating to them, and I believe that it brings us closer to Bach as a human being, instead of just the marble bust on the music teacher's piano.

And of course, people began to say, well, have you written this down? Have you written about this? So I began to do some research into daily life. And one of the first things I did was to buy a wonderful book called Evening's Empire. Which is a story of conquering the night with artificial illumination.

It's a history of artificial illumination. And that led me to the realization of how utterly mind-bogglingly primitive interior home lighting was in Bach's time. Staggeringly surprising that nothing had changed in terms of artificial illumination for thousands of years. 

Ron Klemm (08:28)
Right. 

David Gordon (08:28)
They were still heating, not heating, they were still lighting their homes the way the Egyptians had lit their homes 2, 500 years before.

And that set me on the trail. I thought, I thought, I need to learn more about this. I knew a lot about Bach. There's a lot of vignettes in my book of, of, of his career. And most of them are vignettes that. The Bach aficionados are familiar with. But in between, in the book, I don't discuss any of his music. I talk about his career as a musician and in between what was life like back then.

And the lighting was more than anything what did it for me. And the more I got into it, the more I realized that no one had ever actually written a book exactly like this. Which is a book about Bach, but, but discussing, focusing really on the daily life during his era. And that's a subject that really interests me.

I began to share bits and pieces of what I was writing with the lecture audiences and I saw their enthusiasm. But basically the, the bottom line is what motivated me was the glow in people's eyes when I talked about daily life in Bach's time. It's 300 years ago. I mean, we're, this is the year of the St. John Passion. It was premiered in April, 300 years ago. And that's a long time. How do we reach over? How do we bridge over those gaps? Decades over those centuries and, and meet Johan Sebastian Bach as a career man, an employee. He was an employee all his life. He was not a superstar. He was not wealthy. He always worked for a salary.

He had a large family, which a lot of people know very well. We, we're, we're aware of the 20 children. The details of the lives of the 20 children are filled with tragedy because so many of them died at an early age, 

Ron Klemm (10:33)
Right.

David Gordon (10:34)
What was that like? What was, how did they do the laundry? What did they, what did they eat?

And the more I delved into it, the more fascinated I became and my wife Jenna says that I suffer from something she calls research rapture Which is I don't, I don't, I don't want the research to end because I figured just around the corner if I just Look up this little fragment. I'm gonna learn something else and And This book for me, and in my life as a performer and lecturer, I, I like to find these aha things.

I think, oh, wow, I didn't know that. Wow, that really, wow, that expands my awareness in some way. And then the very next thing is I want to tell that to other people. I like sharing that. I like 

Ron Klemm (11:24)
Yeah. 

David Gordon (11:24)
Sharing things that are a little surprising. And, and in this case, bringing us closer to the humanity of a composer who has been So important to me and in my musical life.

Ron Klemm (11:36)
We're talking to author and tenor and research rat David Gordon, more in just a moment. I'm Ron Klem. This is Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (12:05)
You talked a little bit about some of the contexts where Bach lived and, and his what things were like around him. Tell us a little bit about. Where he lived. Tell us a little bit about the Leipzig of Box Day. This was a bustling place, wasn't it? 

David Gordon (12:26)
Right. Leipzig was at the intersection of two ancient Roman trade routes.

And from the get go, Leipzig had been a major trade center. And they were big trade fairs there every year, the merchandise flowing north and south and east and west. And when Bach was there, it was a pretty bustling town of about 30, 000 people. 

Ron Klemm (12:51)
Wow. 

David Gordon (12:52)
There was a, it was a, it is, it was and is a beautiful walled city. It is. With wide boulevards and wide streets outside the city gates and beer gardens and beautiful villas. It was a very busy city.

It had around a dozen churches, including the big main churches that Bach was responsible for managing the music in and it was a thriving city because of all the trade.

And it was also a very progressive city. It was one of the first cities to try out streetlights. In the second decade of the 18th century, they were weak, but they were there and they changed, the streetlights changed Europe and it changed the world because it meant that people could go out at night.

It meant they could gather in the burgeoning coffee houses. And there were large, we call them coffee houses now, but that's, they were really restaurants that served wine and beer and sold cigars and sold coffee. So Leipzig was a busy town. Bach had a lot of jobs there. He was in charge of the churches, four churches, two of which he had to deal with personally.

He taught music in this boys' choir school. It was a boarding school for boys and those boys supplied the tenor and alto voices for the church music making. And, the school was a big building, a five story building and Bach's home was one third of that building from the basement to the attic and his home was always bustling and filled with people.

A lot of people lived in the Bach household. His two oldest daughters who were unmarried lived with them, with Bach and Anna Magdalena their entire life. Anna Magdalena's sister lived with them. There were always students and. Other guests there, it was a busy time and,  the town itself was as modern as you could be in the 1720s.

There was a river running by and they they built water wheels and pumps. On the edge of the river to pump water through the town and that pumped water to these various fountains where people would go and collect water and bring it back to their kitchens and boil it before they drank it. It also enabled them to pump water through the storm gutters where people threw all their detritus, their garbage and their human waste.

I have some photos in the book where you can, you can see that these storm gutters. In these broad plazas, you can see these gutters flowing through and people have built little bridges over them to walk over them because they would have been filled with the foulest of stuff. And but 

Ron Klemm (15:54)
Stank to high heaven, I'll bet.

David Gordon (15:56)
Really, yes. The smell of city living was overpowering back then. Yeah. Travelers used to say they could smell Paris before they could see it as they approached the city. And so Leipzig was a little bit progressive in that way.  and that they, you, you did not, you didn't dare drink the water out of the river.

Because all the affluence from these storm gutters were pumping into the river and the people downstream were having polluted water just as probably was being pumped into the, the same coming from upstream from Leipzig. It was possible for Anna Magdalena to go out or one of her daughters or the housemaid they had to go to the fountain, bring back buckets of water, carry them upstairs to the kitchen, which was on the second floor and boil it.

That's why a lot of people drank beer. They drank beer all the time, a weak form of beer because the brewing process killed the microbes in the water. 

Ron Klemm (17:05)
Sure. 

David Gordon (17:06)
And everybody drank beer of every age. There were kegs of beer in the basement of the boys school so that the boys could have their ration of beer every day.

You didn't drink the water. So it was a busy, it was a busy town. There were a lot of coffee houses and bars. Bach for 15 years was a, ran the, sort of the Palm Court Orchestra in Zimmerman's Coffee House. Every Friday night they had concerts there. A lot of his secular works and concertos were premiered there.

He was in charge of all the civic music for funerals and court occasions, and when the elector of Saxony, who was the closest thing to a king came to visit, there was all sorts of celebrations, and Bach was in charge of all of that. He was a music contractor, He was a school teacher who didn't like to teach school.

He was the choir director. He hired other people to teach Latin. He was supposed to teach Latin to the kids and he hired other people. The city council didn't care for that so much. City council didn't think too much of him. No. I think he gave, he was a, as great people are, he, he was demanding and he had high standards and he didn't want to be bothered with teaching Latin and theology to the students.

He wanted time to compose. He hired assistants to do the classroom teaching. He directed the boys and trained them in their singing and managed a music in four churches, two of which he had to be present for personally. 

Ron Klemm (18:37)
Right. 

David Gordon (18:38)
And it was a, it was a job to which. Duties had accrued over the years without any thought for whether or not one person could do it, 

Ron Klemm (18:47)
Right.

David Gordon (18:48)
And he was a very very busy man there and it was a very busy city and he was a big shot Because he was one of the leading musicians of the town 

Ron Klemm (18:56)
Now you talked about how the city didn't like him for this or that or whatever reason And then we're talking about all his church work And, and somebody's listening to this and going, well, wait a minute, what's the, what's the town got to do with the work in the church? But in those days, there was no separation of church and state, was there? 

David Gordon 

(19:16)
No, no. no, the city council paid him to manage the music in the churches. There was no separation between the two.The churches were part of the city. They were part of the civic life. Of the city. The churches, the St. David Gordon Nicholas and St. Thomas Church, which were, which were his principal churches, each seated more than a thousand people. They were, they are, were and are big churches. They're not little tiny chapels. And he was hired, he was probably one of the greatest keyboard artists of his time, but he had no organ duties.

in the churches. He was the director of music, which means he led the music, but was not the organist in those churches. And he he produced, he had to produce music every week for choir and orchestra. in one of the two main churches, and then of choir music in the other churches. And then there were two lesser churches and those operated with his, under his authority, but without his direct supervision.

He was usually just a few singers to lead the hymns. But there was no separation between church and state as we understand it. He had a series of jobs in his life. Working either for the city council, which meant he was working in churches, or working for royalty. He worked for the Dukes of Weimar, he worked for,  the Prince of Köthen, and the other jobs were all church jobs, and he was paid by the city council.

In a combination in Leipzig, he was paid a combination of cash and bushels of grain and firewood and beer. 

Ron Klemm (21:06)
And housing. 

David Gordon (21:07)
And housing. And housing. Yes, exactly. So the church job was a civic job. He was, his official title was director of music of the city of Leipzig. 

Ron Klemm (21:20)
I want to talk more about that. We have to take another quick break. I'm going to head out a minute and go over to Zimmermann's for a brew. Do you want anything? I'll get you some. Oh, okay. 

David Gordon (21:31)
Yes, please. 

Ron Klemm (21:32)
Okay. Well, in the meantime, don't drink the water. That's that's David Gordon. I'm Ron Klem. This is Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (21:56)
You start talking about these kinds of things and you know, immediately you make comparisons, fair or unfair.  I had cataract surgery. For example, a couple of years ago, and I was just amazed at how, what they're able to do just miraculous techniques and, and so on. And I was, I was fine in just a couple of days, Bach had cataract surgery.And I don't know, I mean, he was, they blinded him or killed him or what? You tell me. 

David Gordon (22:29)
Yes.  there was this semi-quack English doctor,  who traveled Europe, never staying in one place too long because he had to leave town before they chased him out. And his name was Taylor and he came to Leipzig in the spring of 1750.

David Gordon (22:58)
When Bach was 65 years old and gave his big spiel before the town council about how great he was and all the accomplishments, which mostly were false. 

Ron Klemm (23:09)
Sure. 

David Gordon (23:10)
And Bach had his Bach was suffering from cataracts and was losing his eyesight. He may already have had a minor stroke, but his health was really bad.

Ron Klemm (23:22)
Mmhmm. 

David Gordon (23:23)
And the Chevalier Taylor, as he billed himself, performed the operations in his coach, in the street. And he had an assistant, and the main job qualification for being the assistant of an eye doctor in those days, or a dentist, was upper body strength so that you could hold the patient still while this procedure went on.

I, I touch on the operation a little bit in, in the, in the book, and it was something horrible. It was something that we, it's something that's gruesome, that it's hard to, it's hard to take it in. And Bach was essentially blinded. There was some initial clarity and then the vision faded. There was a follow-up operation that was supposed to take away scar tissue, which probably made things worse.

And his health declined until he was, he was blind. And on the 28th of July of 1750, he passed away. Lying in his bed in a darkened room and where he had been dictating changes in a four-part hymn to his son-in-law. As a footnote, a tragically poetic footnote, just a few years later, the same quack doctor performed the same operation on George Friedrich Handel and blinded him too.

Ron Klemm (24:53)
Unbelievable, isn't it? 

David Gordon (24:55)
Yeah, yeah. 

Ron Klemm (24:56)
The truth is crazier than fiction. 

David Gordon (25:00)
It really is. And I, as a researcher, I love that. I love, I love being surprised. Even if it means that I Have to think differently about something that I thought I already knew. 

Ron Klemm (25:15)
We, there's so much to talk about and I, we want to have you back and talk some more about it, but let me just spin out of what you just said with all the research that you've done. What is it? Research rapture? Is that what, is that? 

David Gordon (25:29)
Yes. Research rapture. 

Ron Klemm (25:30)
What is the most surprising thing that you learned? What is the thing that shocked you the most in going through all of this? 

David Gordon (25:43)
I believe the most shocking area in general, I mean the whole, the history of lighting was surprising to me.

Ron Klemm (25:51)
Yeah. 

David Gordon (25:53)
But it didn't gross me out. But what passed for personal hygiene and cleanliness in the early 1700s in Europe is almost beyond belief. 

Ron Klemm (26:09)
Yeah. Defies logic, doesn't it? 

David Gordon (26:11)
Yeah. For, because the Romans early on had it pretty much figured out there was a history of cleanliness there. There were the baths. There was various types of running water.

And when the Romans had their footprint in Germanic Europe, there were communal baths and there was cleanliness was a thing. After The Black Death, after the plague, because people had no idea where the disease came from and it was thought that the plague was transmitted through this miasma, that was this ineffable substance in the air, that would enter your body through the pores, In your skin.

Therefore, keep your skin pores clogged and you'll stay healthy. And Europe stopped bathing. 

Ron Klemm (27:03)
Oh man. 

David Gordon (27:04)
Yeah. Oh man. And, the one thing we don't get with the fabulous mini-series and movies that depict life in the 18th century is we don't get the smell. 

Ron Klemm (27:18)
No, 

David Gordon (27:18)
We don't get how bad everything smelled, and we don't get how, how this affected everything, including people's health.

And I think that to me was the most surprising thing was, and I never thought as a professional musician and a specialist in the music of Johann Sebastian Bach, that I'd be, Writing a book about Bach and finding the most fabulous and most interesting research sources to be books like The Dirt on Clean, A History of Cleanliness.

Or my favorite was called,  Privy's and WC's: Crapping at the Opera in Handel's London. And it was, it was, it started out as a doctoral thesis and became a published book. And it's basically a book about how the big opera houses dealt with restrooms or the lack thereof. And for us as 20th-century people with hot and cold running water.

We have a beautiful tiled shower, and it's, and I take it so for granted until I read about what people went through then, bathing every, maybe every few months, if that checking for fleas all the time, and I think that to me, I, I, frankly, I could have gone farther into it in the book. It would have monopolized the book because it is the most dramatic part of the story is how far we have come in just a couple of hundred years into something totally and completely different.

Ron Klemm (29:08)
Well, on behalf of everyone who's read the book, I thank you for sparing us that. That pain. 

David Gordon (29:15)
Yeah. 

Ron Klemm (29:15)
Ignorance was not bliss in that, in that case, 

David Gordon (29:19)
No. 

Ron Klemm (29:20)
Knowing, knowing what you know, let me end with this. Knowing what you know and living in a, in a 21st century world, what is today still the greatest misconception about Bach? What is it that we just still don't quite get? 

David Gordon (29:39)
I think there might be a tendency to see Bach as a dower, stern, solemn person.

And I think he was very serious about his art, there's no doubt about that. He was very serious about his religious beliefs. He was a devout Lutheran. But he also was a fun-loving person. And he loved to make jokes. He loved to write music that was, it's not so slap your knee funny to us today, but it was pretty funny back then.

I will also point out that he was a lusty man who had 20 children. And All of this paints up, paints for me, a picture of someone who really loved life, who really lived life to the fullest, ran a busy household with lots of people, was constantly innovating and writing music in new ways. And so they're part of the myth of Bach as he was an old conservative.

No, he was actually very forward-thinking. And he wanted to be upwardly mobile. He, he, he wanted to be a success, but at the same time as his oldest son said, my father's love of his family was so great that he couldn't neglect them and go on to be a, the kind of success that he might've been. 

Ron Klemm (31:22)
Wow. 

David Gordon (31:22)
I think, I think I also realized that. Anna Magdalena was his second wife, and when they met, she had a career as a professional singer. And in marrying him, she gave up that career. She had no children of her own. It was her first marriage. He already had four children. He was a difficult man with four kids to bring up. She must have loved him.

And there must have been something there to love. So I think that my impression of Bach from this long distance Is that he was a, a genius of very high standards and very hard to live with. She loved him. He would never have had the career he had without her. He loved life. He loved to laugh. He wrote the poem about putting tobacco in his pipe and puffing it.

He, he was a, he was a person of vitality and not some, you Stern, Dower schoolmaster, and that's what I hope to continue to preach in my own work is that Bach was a person of great personality. And so is his music. 

Ron Klemm (32:46)
I am always thrilled to talk to you because you always give such great insights and put things in perspective.

Ron Klemm
And we appreciate you so much. So thank you for spending time with us and talking about some of these things. And I hope you'll come back because I've got about 17 cards there that we didn't get to and talk about some more things. 

David Gordon (33:06)
I'm, I'm, I'd be glad to come back anytime. It's I treasure my relationship with the Bach Society of Saint Louis. In n 1972, after coming back from studying in Canada, I made my American concert debut as tenor soloist with the Bach Society of Saint Louis at Powell Symphony Hall. And so to come this full circle from that green beginner more than 50 years ago now to talking with you here, I just love it. I love my association with the Bach Society and I'm really happy to talk with you. any old time, Ron.

Ron Klemm (34:45)
“So schnell ein rauchend Wasser”— as swiftly as roaring water rushes by. So, hurry by the days of our life. Can you relate? The tenor aria from Bach's Cantata 26, David Gordon, in a private recording he made with a student and faculty chamber ensemble from Princeton University.

Remember now, you can order your own copy of The Little Bach Book by David Gordon by simply going to our website, bachsociety. org, click on About, and you'll find the link. For slightly more than a cup of coffee at Zimmerman's, you can enjoy The Little Bach Book. For more information about David Gordon, his past recordings, his current endeavors, visit his website, spiritsound. com. One word, spiritsound. com. In addition to David's music, we also heard from pianist Sandra Geary and the Bach Society Orchestra conducted by music director A Dennis Sparger. Our associate producer is Scott MacDonald. Marketing and technical assistance provided by Andie Murphy and Charissa Marciniak of The Right Relations.

Subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at bachsociety. org. Bach Talk is a registered trademark of the Bach Society of St. Louis. I'm Ron Klemm 

About Episode 7

Don’t miss this insightful conversation with Dr. Stephen Morscheck, a seasoned bass-baritone singer and professor of vocal studies at the University of North Texas. He’s returning to St. Louis to once again sing the role of Jesus in Bach’s St. John Passion. What goes into preparing for such a unique role? He shares insights into the intricate process of embodying characters like Jesus in Bach's compositions, emphasizing the importance of understanding the text, theology and musical nuances. He answers this and more during his conversation with host Ron Klemm.

Episode Transcript

(00:00) Ron Klemm
This is Bach Talk.

A great vocal soloist needs to master many skills. A strong technique is essential, of course. An understanding of the style in which one is singing is just as important. So is charisma and stage presence.

The Bach Society of Saint Louis, for example, finds soloists who meet all of these requirements, but there's more. Most soloists will tell you that they must to some degree Become the very character they are portraying To get inside the skin and mind of the person in order to truly convey them and communicate them properly. It all makes perfect sense, of course, but what about when that character is the son of God?

What happens when one is called upon to sing the words that Jesus himself spoke in the Bible? Words that provide the very foundation of faith for so many. How does one get into the mind of the Savior?

It seems like an impossible task, yet that is exactly what Johann Sebastian Bach demands of a skilled bass soloist in his settings of the gospel passions. Today, we'll put that question and a whole lot more to a man who's been there many times. Stay right where you are for an enlightening, deep, thoughtful, yet fun filled conversation with Dr. Stephen Morscheck.

Ron Klemm (02:51)
Hello, I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to Bach Talk. Professor of Vocal Studies at the University of North Texas, Stephen Morscheck has seen and experienced more than most. Name a prominent operatic bass role by Mozart, Verdi, or Rossini. Chances are Steve has sung it. Think of the bass solos in sacred choral masterpieces by Handel, Beethoven, and Brahms.

Yep, in the past year he's reprised the main oratorial roles in Haydn's creation and Mendelssohn's Elijah. Experience is the greatest teacher, they say. And Morscheck's concert reviews demonstrate he has learned his lessons well. But perhaps his greatest claim to fame lies in his affinity for Bach and for playing the difficult role of Jesus in the Leipzig Master's setting of the Passion Story, as told in the Biblical Gospels of Matthew and John.

Dr. Morscheck has sung these roles here in Saint Louis several times. Each occasion has brought a rich, fulfilling understanding of the mind and heart of Bach. We chatted with Steve in the Versailles room at the Hilton Saint Louis Frontenac Hotel. With the help of editor Scott MacDonald, we want to share that conversation.

Let's start at the beginning with the beginning. Your early influences, let's start there. 

Stephen Morscheck (04:20)
Sure. I was born in 1959 in Marshfield, Wisconsin. The last of four children to, uh, a pastor. And my mother, his wife, was the church organist and pianist and so forth, so going to church was a huge part of our life.

Stephen Morscheck (04:38)
Music was also an important part of our life because of the fact that my mother played the piano and the organ. She enlisted all four children to be involved in some way. We all studied some instrument at some point during our schooling. I picked up the trombone. That had been left over from my second brother and started making noise with it.

Stephen Morscheck (05:02)
And she said, well, you're going to have to take some lessons. And I eventually ended up playing the trombone all the way through high school. My voice changed a little bit earlier than most of my peers and, uh, my mother began enlisting me to sing little things at church and, uh, encouraged me to also audition for the high school choir.

I could hold my own in terms of singing and so forth and, uh, got all the way my first try into the top choir in my high school. I was the only sophomore and I even got a solo in my sophomore year and that led to getting some of the leading roles in the next two years in the musicals that we did. And so I decided to pursue performing, which I didn't really understand what it was at the time, but I decided to attend college and study singing.

Ron Klemm (05:59)
You decided that, or someone decided for you? 

Stephen Morscheck (06:02)
I did, I don't, I would not say that my, my mother forced me by any means, or encouraged me. By that point, they, they let me decide. And really, that was the strongest interest that I had. And at that point in my life I did have a, I was a, not necessarily a proactive person.

I was reactive. And so that seemed like the, the least path of resistance. I was getting a lot of positive responses from people hearing me sing and so forth. And I did, at that point, believe that maybe the, I had been given some sort of gift in this way and so forth and that it should be something that I should pursue I did have a strong belief in God at that point and recognition that He was sovereign over these things in our lives, I believed, and so that perhaps this was something that he had for me to do.

So I went away to college and studied voice for four years, and when I finished college, I wasn't so sure anymore. 

Ron Klemm (07:05)
And where was that? 

Stephen Morscheck (07:07) 

Wheaton College, outside of Chicago. 

Ron Klemm (07:09)
A lot of influences along those lines, I would think. 

Stephen Morscheck (07:13)
Yes, right. It was a, it's a Christian liberal arts college. Yes, and I received excellent training there. But I also came to a point of, of, uh, having to ask some serious questions about life in general. And I did discover at that point in my life that the way I viewed the world and the way I lived were largely, I think, I would say, second hand, that I had picked up from my parents in terms of being a preacher's kid and what we did in our lives every week and so forth So I took a year I realized during my senior year in college that going on to grad school just because everybody else was doing it was not the thing to do so I took a year off and worked as a janitor the night shift from 11 at night till 7:30 in the morning During that year. I I was searching And I decided, I continued to go to church and so forth, but I believe that God brought into my life certain people, so that I could sort these things out myself. And, uh, make a decision for myself, what I believed about the world, what I believed about the universe, what I believed about our purpose here on life.

And so, I did not walk away from the faith. I embraced it fully as my own. 

Ron Klemm (08:33)
On your own? 

Stephen Morscheck (08:34) And that's how I live my life, no matter if I were a singer, or if I were to be anything else in life. 

Ron Klemm (08:42)
It's very clear to me that you must have immediately had an affinity for Bach and for the works of a person who expressed the deepest parts of his heart and soul through his music. 

Stephen Morscheck (08:59)
That's, that's actually a very profound statement that you have made, because I'll tell you a story. My voice teacher at Wheaton College assigned to me for my senior recital, one of Bach's great solo cantatas for the bass voice. It's cantata 82, Ich habe genug. 

Ron Klemm (09:20)
It's, it's enough. 

Stephen Morscheck (09:21)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I learned the whole thing, memorized. All three arias, two recitatives. We did, I did it with piano. So I sang it at modern pitch. I didn't even know what Baroque pitch was back then. 

Ron Klemm (09:34)
Well, no, I still don't, but that's another story.

Stephen Morscheck (09:37) 
And I loved the piece on all the different levels. And apparently, my teacher thought that it really fit me like a glove. Because he said to my mother My mother and father came to my senior recital and he said to my mother, he said something to this effect, that he's heard many people sing Bach, but your son sings Bach, he said. Something to that effect. And he never actually said that to me, that I recall. Something my mother relayed it to me. later on. 

Ron Klemm (10:09)
Well, she didn't want it to go to your head. 

Stephen Morscheck (10:11)
Yeah, probably. But I've always loved it so much. His music has always been, um, I have found it so enjoyable to sing. It's like medicine on my voice in some ways.

But it's also so challenging. It's like mathematics in some ways. And as I've grown older and studied it more in depth and learned more about his life and how he essentially consecrated himself to and dedicated himself to composing music, for the church, for worship. He certainly composed music that is not that way.

Other things that would be considered to be secular. But he, he pretty much focused himself only on composing music for the church. Um, that was my introduction to Bach. 

Ron Klemm  (10:58)
Do you see a parallel between perhaps the greatest church musician of all and the work that you're doing now? 

Stephen Morscheck (11:09)
So as, as a preacher's kid.

Ron Klemm (11:12)
Yeah. 

Stephen Morscheck (11:13)
There was a pretty strong pull to consider being a preacher for my life's work. 

Ron Klemm (11:19)
As opposed to being a church musician? 

Stephen Morscheck (11:22)
Right. 

Ron Klemm (11:23)
Interesting. 

Stephen Morscheck (11:23)
Yeah. And, um, I do want to proclaim, I do want to, to share this what I believe with others, but to be able to do it with also this, singing, there was a germ that began when I was in high school and that I have trained. Ever since I started I have not stopped training I have not stopped learning how to use this instrument as a delivery system for whatever I'm singing whether it's something that is foundational to my faith or whether it's something completely divorced from it, something that's entirely different, but maybe an opera role of a character who is not anything near the part that I'm singing now in this particular piece. 

Ron Klemm (12:06)
And you've done many of those.

Stephen Morscheck (12:08)
Yeah. 

Ron Klemm (12:09) 
How do you approach them? Do you approach them differently? If one is something very meaningful to you and the other is eh, whatever. Do you approach it with the same gusto, with the same earnest, with the same approach?

Stephen Morscheck (12:21)
I endeavor to, yes. I endeavor to. I endeavor to bring everything that I can understand about why this character is the way they are.

What is, what is in their world view? What are, what are their desires? And endeavor to bring that out as I sing, whether I'm on stage or perhaps it's another oratorio for instance, to bring that to its fullest degree. I'll use another example, another oratorio, I've sung it many times, but it's the role of Raphael in Haydn's creation.

So Haydn's creation, in addition to orchestra and chorus, there are three soloists, depending upon how it's cast, there could be another two soloists that come at the end when you have Adam and Eve. But I'm going to be singing both Adam and Raphael. So Raphael is an angel, and he stands up and talks about in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

And then later on, he says, and God made animals. He makes animals, the tiger and the lion and the Haydn is very descriptive. Well, I approach it as if I've never been an angel. Right? But what would it be like to be an angel witnessing this happening out of nothing? There would be great joy. There would be great wonder.

There would be awe. I've never seen a lion before, right? And that's what I try to bring to it as I sing it. It's also very enjoyable to sing the core of what may be going on in the text.

 Ron Klemm  (13:53)
Bass-baritone Stephen Morscheck singing a short recitative from Bach's Christmas Oratorio in a performance by the Bach Society as part of the 2017 Saint Louis Bach Festival. More of our conversation straight ahead. You're listening to Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm  (14:47)
Bach in his Passions uses soloists to convey the, the heart of the matter that's going on, but he also uses characters one, and I'll talk just about the two main ones. One is the evangelist who basically tells the gospel story. The other is the character role of our Lord and Savior. You have sung that with the Bach Society on several occasions.

How does one prepare to be Jesus?

Stephen Morscheck (15:21)
Ultimately you have to go to the text. It wouldn't hurt, rather than just to study the actual passage in the case of the St. Matthew Passion, for instance, Matthew 26 and 27, where that, all that text comes from, but also the greater theology behind what the New Testament, for instance, argues about who Jesus is, that he's fully God and fully man, and that has to be considered when you sing this part.

Stephen Morscheck (15:51)
How did, how can that possibly be shown? Can we even understand that? Right. Then of course, there's the understanding of the music itself. And Bach does this interesting thing. He wasn't the first to do it. But he gives to Jesus a very unique accompaniment. And that is what we would call restitiva accompagnato only with the strings.

Stephen Morscheck (16:17)
And it creates this Aura around everything he says as the piece progresses Again, it's restative. He's speaking. He's just simply speaking his text, but it's not as free as the what the evangelist does it has a it's slightly more metered It's conducted by the conductor and it's consistent all the way through the St. Matthew Passion except the very last thing Jesus says when he's on the cross.

Stephen Morscheck (16:52)
So we have to figure out, well, what does that mean? Why does he do that? I teach a course at the University of North Texas where I'm on faculty there. Uh, so we talk about this piece as, as part of all these, these things. And the text that I use is written by a fellow named Michael Steinberg, and he refers to Bach as an inveterate musical illustrator.

Stephen Morscheck (17:13)
He illustrates what's happening in the text musically. And you can see it time and time again in this piece of St. Matthew. You have to look at the text, obviously. You have to try to gain an understanding of who Jesus is and who Bach thinks Jesus is. Uh, when Bach is composing for Jesus, and the piece is going to be performed, not as a concert piece, not in some orchestra hall, it's going to be performed as part of a church worship experience.

Ron Klemm (17:43)
On Good Friday. 

Stephen Morscheck (17:44)
On Good Friday. What is Bach thinking about it? You have to take all those things into consideration. Getting back to the string accompaniment, some people refer to it as the halo. It does create this sort of aura about Jesus. And if we're not careful, it makes Jesus sound like he's only of heavenly value, like that he has no earthly, he's not, he doesn't have his feet on the ground.

Stephen Morscheck (18:06)
It can very easily, it can become so slow and sustained that you can't relate to this person. The first time I did this work, I did it with Conductor John Nelson, and he challenged me to find the humanity in how I delivered my text. There are moments where Jesus gets very excited about and, and enthusiastic about the Word of God, but then there are times when he's simply speaking to the disciples.

He encouraged me to think of that as being more free. Not quite so slow and sustained and so we played a lot with that and I endeavor to keep that as I do The part now as I sing it that there are places where it moves ahead Where it has a little bit more sense of just every day but you sense the humanity and then there are moments where when Jesus starts talking about certain scripture being fulfilled by what's happening or when he says of this same lady what she has done for me is going to be told Wherever this gospel is preached, and every time the St. Matthew Passion is performed, I'll add that as well, right? That story is told over and over. 

Ron Klemm (19:17)

Of course, over and over. Exactly right. 

Ron Klemm (19:27)
When you are singing about Matters of life and death. The most profound (20:00) texts that you can imagine and deliver them. And your instrument is in your body. The same place where all your emotions and all your, yeah, your soul lives, right? Surely there must be a technique to do that because I get a lump in my throat every time I try to sing something. How do you do that? 

Stephen Morscheck (18:06)
You're nailing it right on the head. That is exactly one of the great mysteries about what we learn to do in this particular style of singing. Which I'll call, I'll call bel canto. Beautiful singing. No microphones. So we're responsible for our own projection. And we have to do, what I believe, and I call, as I teach it, we have to have an open throat.

And what do emotions tend to do to our throats? They tend to close our throats. Literally, we have an expression for it. We get Choked up and the throat, the throat goes into more of a swallowing kind of position where it gets squeezed like that. And when we get up to sing, we have to have our throat open.

So we have to find a way. To have hot hearts, passionate hearts, and cool minds as, as we do this. And that takes hours and hours, years of practice. But that is constantly the challenge that we have.

Ron Klemm (21:57)
The voice of bass-baritone, Stephen Morsheck, singing the words of Jesus in Bach's St. Matthew Passion from a concert by the Bach Society of Saint Louis in the spring of 2023. Straight ahead we'll hear from Professor Morsheck and his approach to teaching aspiring young singers. You're listening to Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (22:25)
You're a teacher. What attributes do you look for in a young singer? Besides the musical gift and the, and the technique and the moldability that you can, you can deal with, what other things do you look for? 

Stephen Morscheck (22:40)
The biggest thing I look for is what I'll just call thirst. They are not satisfied just being told by me what to do. They have a thirst. To learn something, to explore, and they come in with, I found this piece, Dr. Morscheck, what do you think? Is this something I could do? Versus somebody who simply is content to just be told, do this, do this, do this, and that's all they'll do. Sometimes that, again, can be hard to discern immediately.

But I can think of one, one student that I currently work with, and he was talking about listening to some Beethoven quartet. And this particular phrase within this quartet and how the bassline moved or something like that. And I, and I know that I, I have no idea what Beethoven quartet he's talking about.

And I, and I played jokingly, I said, Oh yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. And then I laughed and then I laughed because. I mean, he's a tremendous example of someone who's very, very thirsty. He, he discovers new music, music that, about, from all different angles. He's not going to be able to sing it all in one lifetime, the kinds of things that he's interested in.

Ron Klemm (24:01)
What is the one thing you wish you could teach some people? 

Stephen Morscheck (24:04)
Oh, my word. Well, the list must be long. No. If you can talk, you can sing. Because, because the same two vocal folds that come together in your throat, in your larynx to vibrate, to produce tone, anything you say, grunting, speaking, okay, if you, if you have the ability to do that, then you have the ability to sing because what singing is, is sustained speech.

Ron Klemm (24:37)
Is there such a thing as being tone-deaf? 

Stephen Morscheck (24:39)
Well, I, I do not have the authority to say no, or yes, either way. I don't know for sure. But I do know that people who I've been, who have come to me and said they're tone deaf, or a student, for instance, that's come in who couldn't match pitch, eventually they were able to learn to match pitch.
It seems to be a coordination of within the brain and the laryngeal nerves. to understand that they, they can match pitch. This particular young man was a rock singer and he came to study music business and he had to have an instrument and voice became his instrument. And I, as the new teacher on the block, he was assigned to me.

And he came in the first day and I started plunking the notes on the piano for him to sing along and he couldn't do it. I was also teaching at that same time, a voice class for non-voice music majors. So your trumpet players, your flutists, your oboists, and so forth, string players, they had to take a voice class.

They took it with me. And they were going to have to be, they were music educators, they were going to be going into schools, and they might become the subject matter voice expert in their school. So I had a local teacher come in who taught junior high choir. And this choir director, Talked about the particular challenges for boys when their voices change when they go through puberty and how their voices change and they oftentimes lose the ability to match pitch and how she solved it.

And she solved it by having them come up to the upright piano, not a grand piano, but an upright conventional piano and stand with their hands on the backside of the sounding board. Really? And she would begin to play simple scales and so forth, and they would feel the vibrations and somehow they began to translate that into their throats and they began to be able to match pitch.

Ron Klemm (26:43)
That's fascinating. 

Stephen Morscheck (26:44)
Not instantaneously, but it works. Eventually. That's what I did with this young man, this rock singer. And by the time he had to do his recital, he was matching pitch and he was able to sing songs where the pitch was independent from the accompaniment. If you can speak, if you can grunt, if you can say, that is a pitch, that is a pitch already.

It's got vibration, vibration by definition is going to have a frequency, right? And all you have to do is then sustain that. That is complicated. That takes an understanding of your breath, right? And, how the throat should feel and science of it. Yeah. And that's what teaching is all about. 

Ron Klemm (27:26)
Yeah. Understanding how that all works. 

Stephen Morscheck (27:28)
That's right. 

Ron Klemm (27:29)
I'd love to, at the end of a conversation, just kind of give you a couple of quick hits. Uh, I don't have one here, but if I had a trombone here and asked you to pick it up, what would be the thing you'd toot on the trombone? What would be the, what would be the first thing you'd play?

Stephen Morscheck (27:46)
That was 40 years ago. 

Ron Klemm (27:47)
Just, just, just guess. 

Stephen Morscheck (27:49)
I do know what I would play. I'm gonna play. Tuba mirum from the Mozart Requiem. 

Ron Klemm (28:04)
My favorite. What piece do you, you cannot live without? 

Stephen Morscheck (28:09)
I've told this to many, many people, St. Matthew Passion. That's, no, that's a no-brainer for me. St. Bach's. St. Matthew Passion. That is my desert Island Peak. 

Ron Klemm (28:21)
If you had to do something else other than teach and perform, what would it be? 

Stephen Morscheck (28:26)
One of two things. I'd go back and I would, I would study history or geology. A different kind of history. Why geology? I've, I've always been fascinated by it. I had a teacher when I was a junior in high school, Mr. Welchon. And he had a huge handlebar mustache. You know, I googled him and he's still living as far as I know.
And he made that topic come alive so wonderfully. He would draw these amazing schematics, cutaways of the sides of mountains, and showing all the various rock layers. And he'd use different colored chalk to show these rock layers, and how this avalanche was caused, and so forth. He made it so interesting and he made it so enjoyable. It's always fascinated me. 

Ron Klemm (29:13)
Well, you've been a joy and, and, and, and a, and a blessing. And, and just a, a great, uh, fun time to sit here and talk with you, so thank you so very much. 

Stephen Morscheck (29:23)
You're welcome. 

Ron Klemm (29:23) 
And we look forward to seeing you again. 

Stephen Morscheck (29:25)
Thank you very much.

Ron Klemm (29:37)
We leave you today as we began: with Grosser Herr, Mighty Lord, from Bach’s Christmas Oratorio. Bass-baritone Stephen Morscheck and the Bach Society Orchestra, conducted by Music Director and Conductor A. Dennis Sparger.

All of our musical portions today were taken from concerts by the Bach Society, as captured by Grammy-award-winning recording engineer Paul Hennerich.

Guests of the Bach Society stay at the Hilton Saint Louis Frontenac Hotel featuring old-world charm at the intersection of comfort and convenience.

Subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at BachSociety.org.

Our Associate Producer is Scott MacDonald. Marketing and technical assistance provided by Andie Murphy and Charissa Marciniak of Right Relations.

Bach Talk is a trademark of the Bach Society of Saint Louis.  I’m Ron Klemm.

About Episode 6

Join us as soprano Michele Kennedy shares her musical journey, the impact of her mentors and where she finds joy in her life. She's sharing her vision for a more inclusive approach to historic musical practices while celebrating underrepresented composers and artists. The episode also touches on Michele's experiences during the pandemic, revealing the positive aspects, new skills acquired and the joy she found in daily practice.

Don't miss this enriching conversation with host Ron Klemm that captures the essence of Michele's joy in the arts.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm (00:00)
This is Bach Talk.

The San Francisco Chronicle praised her as an excellent and impassioned soprano, possessing a graceful tonal clarity that is a wonder to hear.

Her name is Michele Kennedy. She first appeared in St. Louis with The Bach Society in 2019. She is a versatile artist, to be sure, specializing in both early and new music. She's a delight to be around, as you're about to discover.

You're hearing that virtuosic soprano aria from Handel's quintessential oratorio, Messiah. Rejoice, greatly. It's an apropos way to describe Michele's approach to life. We talked with her when she was here for that performance with the Bach Society. 

Hello. I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to Bach Talk. A lot has happened in Michele's life since then.

In the fall, ACES Productions released her first solo album with Agave Baroque, titled In Her Hands, a fascinating collection of music by female composers, past and present. She talked about it, pre-release, in our conversation. And just recently, it was announced that she won the coveted 2023 American Prize for Vocal Performance.

She mentioned in a recent email that she was totally surprised by the news. Me? Not so much, because Michele Kennedy has already demonstrated to St. Louis audiences the passion and grace that has impressed so many. We chatted with Michele in the Versailles room at the Hilton St. Louis Frontenac Hotel. A self-proclaimed shy person, I found her perceptive, well-balanced, profound and thoughtful about music, diversity in the arts and life in general.

We began our conversation by asking Michele to describe life as a child in a contrastingly urban, yet serene, California setting. 

Michele Kennedy (02:47)
I grew up near the big lake in central Oakland, Lake Merritt, in an area that was pretty wooded and we were very near the Redwoods. And I have fond memories as a very, very shy little girl of going up to the Redwoods with my family and going on these little hikes, even as a very tiny person.

I loved the majesty of the woods. I also loved being near the water. So we would go to the beach. We would go to the lake and playing in those natural spaces made a big imprint on me as a kid, I would say. I was very shy. I 

Ron Klemm (03:25)
Now that's hard to believe. 

Michele Kennedy (03:26)
Is it really?

Well, my grandfather, my mother's father, used to play Bach every morning on the piano. He was an organist and a minister. And he noticed, even when I was very small, that I loved listening to him play. So when I was three years old, he offered to give us an upright Yamaha. And, I started my piano lessons when I was still too little for my feet to even touch the ground.

And very, very shy, but I, I began with Suzuki at age three and I still am so thankful for that method because I think, particularly for introverted kids, it gives you this really vivid sensory, impression of the keyboard, spatially, numerically, musically and I just loved getting lost in that world.

By the time I was seven or eight, my parents had to encourage me to practice, not because I wouldn't sit at the keyboard, but because all I wanted to do was sing and not play. 

Ron Klemm (04:31)
Uh oh. 

Michele Kennedy (04:33) 
Uh oh. So, some of those beginner tunes like Red River Valley and Dona Nobis Pacem, I would start playing, which is what I was supposed to be doing.

But I just like singing them, so my parents, being wise people, thought, let's try out a choir. And I joined the San Francisco Girls Chorus. 

Ron Klemm (04:52)
Yes, not just any choir. 

Michele Kennedy (04:53)
Not just any choir. In fact, we tried a few other area choirs, which my mom would say in her diplomatic way, were not a great fit, but the Girls Chorus was and it stuck and it became my second family as a kid.

Ron Klemm (05:10)
Ensemble. You learned early on what that meant and what a group of people with the same goals doing the same thing. Powerful stuff, isn't it? 

Michele Kennedy (05:19)
Very powerful. 

Ron Klemm (05:20)
What is it about choirs that give us this incredible bond? 

Michele Kennedy (05:25)
It's a wonderful question. I think it's a lot of things. I think one aspect of it is.

You learn how to calibrate your voice with others, which is to say you bring what you have to say in your own way, but it's in community. So there's a give and take. There's an innate power of listening. I think that you learn on a lot of different levels of compromise, of discipline. The Girls Chorus has never been short on discipline.

We rehearsed, once I reached the, kind of, pre-professional level, which was at age 11 for me, at least three afternoons a week. So four to six, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday were always Girls Chorus rehearsals. And then in concert weeks, there was more. So I think I just started to get it in my muscles that that's when we worked and that we worked to listen to one another, that we worked to achieve a high bar musically and that we sang in all these languages and for me as such a shy child, my parents would tell you that in my first few concerts, I was too shy to even look up at the conductor. 

Ron Klemm (06:42)
Uh, Michele, that's not a good thing. Promise me that you'll look up to Dennis. 

Michele Kennedy (06:51)
I promise. I've learned, I've learned. I think actually this was a great thing about the Girls Chorus because we rehearsed so often. I started to be at home with my craft and to trust that I had something important to offer. And it drew me a little bit over time out of my introversion, such that I could learn to tell a story on the stage.

Ron Klemm (07:18) 
You, you said your dad was a minister or your grandfather? Grandfather. Did you, did you have the church, music experience singing in church or not so much? 

Michele Kennedy (07:29)
Only a little bit. Ah, interesting. Actually, my dad came up in the Baptist tradition in San Diego. My mom came up in the Presbyterian church and they felt fairly strongly that they wanted their two daughters, myself and my sister, Erin, to find our own way when it came to faith, which is to say, to approach the church when we wanted to. 

So I went, I went several times to different churches. I remember my family went a couple of times to Lakeshore Avenue Baptist Church near Lake Merritt in Oakland and it was this wonderfully diverse Baptist congregation, very of and for and about the community.

And I loved that worship. I loved singing there. I loved hearing what everybody had to say. But I didn't attend church regularly until I was in college. 

Ron Klemm  (08:21)
Which was in?

Michele Kennedy(08:23)
New Haven, Connecticut. 

Ron Klemm (8:24)
At?

Michele Kennedy (08:25)
I went to Yale University. 

Ron Klemm (08:27)
Yes, you did. 

Michele Kennedy (08:27)
And I joined the Choir of Christ Church in New Haven under the direction of one Robert Lehman.

Ron Klemm (08:34)
I've heard of him. 

Michele Kennedy (08:36) 
Who from day one was so many different things in my life. He was a very powerful mentor musically. He was a friend to me and my family. And he remains a pillar in my life of mentorship and goodness and support and, I just, I love his family. We would all have these, dinners after Evensong on Sunday, having had a very full day of work.

We'd go have some homemade deliciousness. Alison Lehman is a fierce cook, a fierce everything. Terrific lady. And, I hold them very dear and the Christchurch choir experience really asked a lot of us musically. I think that the caliber of musicianship that Rob expected was extremely high. So in terms of the rigor of sight reading, especially harmonic nuance, rhythmic nuance and versatility, I learned so much in that job.

Ron Klemm (09:41)
It's a long way from Oakland, California to New Haven, Connecticut and Yale University. How did that come about? 

Michele Kennedy (09:51)
That's a good question. We looked at universities both on the West Coast and the East. My parents were very supportive, although I know, especially for my mom, 3, 000 miles felt like a long ways.

Ron Klemm (10:03) 
You think? 

Michele Kennedy (10:04)
A long ways. But my grandfather, my mom's dad got his doctorate in Chinese and Divinity at Yale and it was beloved in the family. I also had two good friends from the Girls Chorus who were fellow alums and when my mom and I came to tour, they took me around and I just had this feeling about the place like, It's like, I love it here.

I love it here. Not just the Gothic architecture, but the ethos, the openness, the beauty of the place. 

Ron Klemm (10:36)
Makes, makes a lot of sense. It sounds to me that your parents and family were not pushing you into any particular area, a little cubby hole or something like that. That you were able to find yourself. Is that fair? 

Michele Kennedy (10:52)
Mm. It is fair. Okay. It's, it's intuitive of you to say that. I think that openness was very important to both my parents, each in their own way, but they wanted their daughters to feel free. and empowered in our choice-making. I think I did feel spurred on to practice. My mother was very good at that, but definitely, there was a lot of freedom of choice.

Ron Klemm (11:23)
So the moral of the story is encourage, support, but don't, don't be pushy. 

Michele Kennedy (11:29)
But don't be pushy. I will say to your question, one other thing, which is that being that far away from home, I did miss it. I did miss it. I went back often. But the one thing I found in college was that, you know, here I am far from my family, far from my upbringing.

The one constant is. Me, you know, the constant is the woman I'm becoming and it, I think it invited more clarity. It asked more clarity of me in terms of what I wanted and where I was going. 

Ron Klemm (12:02)
Who discovered your talent or put it this way, when did you come to the realization? Oh wow, I could actually do this for a living.

Michele Kennedy (12:13)
No, it's a wonderful question. And I would say, gradually, I think that for me, the mentors in my life have been huge, especially since I was such a shy child and remain, in a lot of ways, a very introverted person. I think, from, my Girls Chorus days. My first voice teacher, Sarah Gans, still a very beloved friend of mine in San Francisco.

She lived right near the Twin Peaks and so we would drive seemingly straight uphill to get to her house for my lessons. And she was and remains a big cheerleader and friend. of mine. I think also that all of my directors in the Girls Chorus, especially Dr. Sharon Paul, who I sang under for all of middle school and high school Susan McMain, who succeeded her and now Valerie Santagat, the current director of the Girls Chorus, they're all beloved friends and mentors of mine who I look up to tremendously.

And I think in college and beyond that my voice teachers have been huge, huge for my sense of self, the scope of my dreams, the kind of tangible steps in daily practice that we need to pursue this as a career, but that being said, Ron. It's a leap of faith every day, honestly. 

Ron Klemm (13:38)
Nerves are a good thing, aren't they? They're, they're motivators. 

Michele Kennedy (13:41)
Yes.

Ron Klemm (13:42)
That's soprano Michele Kennedy. I'm Ron Klemm and this is Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (13:50)
It's not uncommon for an organization to publish or put on their website, a vision statement. It's not every day that an individual singer like yourself would have a vision statement and publish it. I want to go through it step by step. And, give you a chance to just take a deep dive into these things. You cool with that? 

Michele Kennedy (14:14)
Absolutely. 

Ron Klemm (14:14)
Okay. To fuel artistic dialogue through a contemporary lens on historic practice. What does that mean? 

Michele Kennedy (14:25)
It means several things. One, I'm a Baroque specialist. I adore, as you know, the works of Handel and Bach in particular. And I think in revisiting those masterworks. And those are their contemporaries, both very beloved and visible and lesser known.

That a contemporary lens to me means, how does this music live today? How does it resonate with us today? And also, how can it interface with more contemporary works on the stage? Whether that means juxtaposing period works with works of the 20th and 21st century, whether that means diversifying our canon as we're called to so intensely today and every day, how do we facilitate a dialogue between the established masterpieces of the stage and those that deserve equal recognition but haven't yet received it.

What does that conversation look like? So for me when I say to fuel a contemporary lens on historic practice, I mean, well let's look at this historic repertoire with a modern lens and ask ourselves, who's been included at the table? Who hasn't been included at the table? How can we forge a bridge between the two? 

Ron Klemm (15:52) 
Who hasn't been included at the table? 

Michele Kennedy (15:56)
Well, in broad strokes, female composers, composers of color. I think those who have been marginalized by less fortunate means. 

Ron Klemm (16:08)
Through no fault of their own. 

Michele Kennedy (16:11)
Through no fault of their own, yeah. So I think that for me there's a big calling, a growing calling in my career to be a leader when it comes to those conversations because they're not easy.

They're not easy. We have to develop the vocabulary, we have to find the fluency and there's no way but through that conversation. So that's what I really mean is, I want to continue to bring these vaunted Baroque masterworks to the stage. I adore them with my entire soul. And What does it look like to really diversify the canon? How, how do we forge meaningful tissue between those, those two paths and include more people on the stage? 

Ron Klemm (16:56)
And in a practical way, how are you doing that? Tell me a little bit about some of the, some of the gig that have incorporated that type of approach. 

Michele Kennedy (17:04)
Mmm, of course. Well, I am a member of the Kaleidoscope Vocal Ensemble, which is now I believe in its fourth season, pandemic seasons included.

Oh my goodness. So Kaleidoscope is comprised of Early music and I would say also contemporary music specialists, primarily artists of color, many of whom are known and beloved here at the Bach Society of St. Louis. And our mission is twofold. One, to bring artistic excellence to the stage. Two, to celebrate the voices of artists of color on the stage and in the field more broadly.

So that means librettists, composers, composers. Artists, voices of all kinds. How do we open the door more widely than it may have felt available to us?

Ron Klemm (18:01)
Number two, your vision statement to work with living composers and writers. So who, what, obviously that, that really dovetails into what you just talked about.

Michele Kennedy (18:14)
I love championing the works of female composers and writers in particular. I would say that the main vehicle for that right now is. Lorelai Ensemble, which I debuted with, which I was to have debuted with in 2020. We all know what happened. I had a digital debut with Lorelai Ensemble. And I just love the clarity and boldness of Beth Willer's vision for that group.

So we are currently working with Julia Wolfe on a tour of her world premiere and sort of regional premiere, as it is, in collaboration with several symphony orchestras. It's a co-commission from Nashville Symphony, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago and the National Symphony in D.C. 

Ron Klemm (19:04)
And the piece is called?

Michele Kennedy (19:06)
Her Story. It's a, I want to say a celebration of women's rights, but it's something deeper than a celebration. It's like a tour de force of the story of civil rights. and the fight for women's equal rights in America. It centers the voices of Abigail Adams and Sojourner Truth. Speaking of Bridges, historic and contemporary and it also interweaves derogatory terms that have been used to denigrate outspoken women of all kinds and stripes for generations.

And it, I would say, through Julia Wolfe's minimalist language, it kind of decimates their power. And puts them back together again and the whole piece feels to me like a reclamation of taking up space in a powerful way as a strong group of women. 

Ron Klemm (20:08)
Fascinating. That is terrific. 

Michele Kennedy (20:11)
Thank you. 

Ron Klemm (20:11)
I can't wait to hear it.

Ron Klemm (20:13)
To bring more diverse voices and perspectives to the stage, again you kind of talked a little bit about that. What does diversity look like in the performing arts? Maybe that's a bigger, broader question. 

Michele Kennedy (20:27)
It is a broader question. Well, I think it can look a lot of different ways. I'll give a couple of examples in hopes that that vivifies the conversation, you know, for us and for the listeners.

I think one way is through curating thoughtful programs that have connective human stuff. As their medium. So, for example, I've worked on this program called Cultural Crossroads with a Bay Area-based group called The Gold Coast Chamber Players, also in collaboration with the Alexander String Quartet.

And it is a dialogue about American music through the music of Dvorak, music of Harry Burleyand the music of R. Carlos Nakai. And the central, the foundation of the program is the friendship between Dvorak and Burleigh, which was very real and decades-long and both emotional and musical. So it's about the influence of Czech music on Dvorak, on various Black musical traditions that he interfaced with when he came to America Native American music and also the program centers not just Harry Burley's original compositions and spiritual arrangements, but also the original works of R. Carlos Nakai, wonderful flutist and composer. And it creates a conversation between those three strands, which is to say, what does it look like when our lens on American music brings together Indigenous voices, Black voices, Czech voices, all kinds of voices, but the connective tissue is those relationships.

I think that's one way. I think another way is through the medium of art song, which is One of my favorites, recital work. So for example, I recently have done this recital, sort of like a mini tour. I did a recital with Opera Philadelphia as part of their Sounds of America program. And then I did a recital in San Francisco at St. Mary's church and they, they had some common threads, which were that they interwove different art song traditions and told the stories of. The composers. So the Opera Philadelphia program very much highlighted the work of Margaret Bonds and Florence Price. So their personal stories were at the fore there.

We also integrated some works by Tania Leon, phenomenal living composer, Nkero Okoye, New York-based composer who is on the rise and for a wonderful reason. And the San Francisco recital also interwove works of Pauline Viardot, Mendelssohn, Fauré. Bonds and price and I do think that in, in the recital medium, it's just so, it's so personal because you're just up there with one voice and a few instruments and I, I find it personally important to talk a little bit about each of the composers in the recital context just to vivify their work, who they were. How their music shows us more about their moment in history. 

Ron Klemm (23:42)
And the last thing on your vision statement is to celebrate curiosity and joy in daily practice. That sounds like something we should all do. 

Ron Klemm (23:53)
What makes you curious? What are you most curious about now?

Michele Kennedy (24:01)
I think my sense of curiosity has no bounds. I do wonder because I'm a new mother, in this work. 

Ron Klemm (24:08)
How new?

Michele Kennedy (24:10)
19 months.

Ron Klemm (24:11)
And how's that going?

Michele Kennedy (24:14
Oh my goodness, it's a wonder. 

Ron Klemm (24:16)
Is your mind wandering at this very moment? How's things going at home? It's okay to say yes. 

Michele Kennedy(24:22)
Right. Well my daughter and my husband are always present in my mind and heart.

Audra Mae is, she's a wonder, she's a delight, she is overflowing with curiosity and lightheartedness. And joy. And joy, which to me is It's kind of a revelation in the practice because I've always just been such a serious person. Anybody who's ever sat down with me would not be shocked by that. But I think that intensity and focus and discipline have always come naturally to me and been cultivated in my environments.

But I think that to reclaim our sense of joy every day is not just an act of empowerment, but an act of reclamation of what it means to be alive. What it means to do this amazing art form, to present it, to be on the stage, to share it with our audiences. It's a privilege, it's an honor and I always do well to just have a smile and remember why I love it so much.

Ron Klemm (25:31)
That's the, uh, reserved Michele Kennedy. I'm Ron Klemm and this is Bach Talk. 

Ron Klemm (26:31)
I don't know about you, but I'm, I get weary about talking about the pandemic, but a lot of things happened, not just technologically during that time. Tell me about what positives came out of that for you. 

Michele Kennedy (26:50)
I learned how to record myself at home. 

Ron Klemm (26:53)
Well, I could have taught you that. 

Michele Kennedy (26:56)
Let me tell you, Ron, it was a steep learning curve. The microphones, the backdrops, the lighting. 

Ron Klemm (27:05)
If you have any problems, just give me a call. 

Michele Kennedy (27:07)
I might take you up on that. But I will say that I really learned how to do it. And I was very clumsy at first, then I got better. That was one thing. I also, I started an indoor garden and I have more herbs growing at home than I ever had before.

I think that was very comforting to me. I'll bet. To have just some living stuff to take care of. 

Ron Klemm (27:31)
It's life, exactly. 

Michele Kennedy (27:32)

IIt's life. And especially if you're in your home month after month, there's a real risk of monotony and I think that tending to growing things. was a beautiful aspect of my life in the pandemic.

I think the other big learning for me was taking myself back to school. All of these summer festivals, masterclasses went online. I took a Feldenkrais workshop that I never would have been able to go to in person. A what? Feldenkrais. I've done more Alexander technique in my personal history as a singer and, you know, as an artist, but I wanted to learn more about Feldenkrais as a movement philosophy and I loved this workshop and I still almost every day use things I learned from it. 

Ron Klemm (28:29)
How about that?

One of the things I noticed was that you, you step back and you realize what the important things in life are. Did you have that experience too over that time? 

Michele Kennedy (28:42)
Yes. 

Ron Klemm (28:43)
And what are those?

Michele Kennedy (28:44)
The essentials. Health. Home. Love. Family. That was, I love that you brought that up because that, that was the deepest learning is, you know, what is the bedrock of my life? (29:00) The people I love most, the places that I hold dear and my love of singing. I would go in our old apartment We had this big laundry room in the basement with great acoustics and it was almost always empty It looked out on a garden and I would go there every day Whether or not I had a recording project and I think it also infused in me the love of practice Because I thought you know, we're really used to extrinsic motivators, right? Master classes, concerts. We don't have any of those So what is my motivation? Do I still want to do this? I would ask myself. And I found that I would go down to our laundry room every day and kind of fall in love with the craft of singing just for its own sake. And that was a really wonderful thing.

Ron Klemm (29:55)
Then let me ask you this. If you couldn't sing (30:00) anymore, what would you want to do in life? 

Michele Kennedy (30:04)
I think I would still want to mentor aspiring musicians. Talk about what this career asks of us. Talk about artistic mission and purpose. I also think I would focus on bodywork. Yoga, Pilates, movement, particularly for young women.

Michele Kennedy (30:26)
I think it's very freeing to learn psychosomatically, to learn and cultivate a sense of fully embodied presence in this world, in what you have to say. And to not make apology for your presence. And so I think I would want to work on that, that combination. Mentorship and embodiment in daily practice.

Ron Klemm (30:53)
What's interesting is in the, in the entirety of our conversation so far, something has not come up. You double majored as a, as an undergrad in music, but also in poli sci. 

Michele Kennedy (31:06)
Mmhm.

Ron Klemm (31:07)
So let me ask you this, I'll get you going. If you were the mayor of Oakland or St. Louis or any major city, what would be on your agenda? What would be the first thing you'd want to try to do? 

Michele Kennedy (31:25)
Infuse a deeper connection between. I think I would want to center environmental education much more, which is to say, what are our natural spaces? How do we celebrate them? How do we preserve them? I think I also would want to work on intercultural dialogue, intercultural spaces, creative spaces. I think that placemaking has everything to do with whether people feel they belong in a place or not.

And so in a civic space, it's like, well, how do we help to galvanize and empower people? Not just so that they vote, but so that they feel that they belong. And I think I would want to cultivate civic spaces, educational spaces, places of public gathering that feel safe, clean, like they celebrate the natural world and like they invite absolutely everyone to the table.

Ron Klemm (32:28)
Well, I'd vote for you. Oakland A's or San Francisco Giants? 

Michele Kennedy (32:35)
Oh, Oakland. Oakland all the way. Although, I have to say, I would go NBA. 

Ron Klemm (32:41)
Oh, really? 

Michele Kennedy (32:42)
My dad cultivated in me a love of the NBA from girlhood and so, the Warriors, the Warriors. Yeah, 

(32:49) Michele Kennedy okay, I'll give you that. In St. Louis, we don't have a pro-NBA team, so we don't get that option.

Ron Klemm (32:56)
After a long rehearsal, or a performance day, (33:00) long day, you're tired, you get home kick your shoes off. What do you do? What do you do to relax? What's the thing that relaxes Michele Kennedy? 

Michele Kennedy (33:11) 

I like to have a quiet snack. With my husband Benjamin. 

Ron Klemm (33:17)
Shout out! GoBe Benjamin. 

Michele Kennedy (33:19)
Yeah, yeah. We like to have cereal. It's very glamorous.

We like to have cereal. We like to have popcorn. Maybe watch a show. Maybe just sit on the couch. I think I like stillness and quiet. Because my life has such an abundance of music that for me, unwinding is almost always quiet. Just a chance to kind of breathe and enjoy the peacefulness of our home space. That makes me happy. 

Ron Klemm (33:49)
Gives you joy. 

Well, we all know the desert island question. Let me rephrase it for your context, okay? (34:00) You, you get to the pearly gates and St. Peter greets you and welcome, Michele. So thrilled you're here, but you know, we've been talking to the cherubim and the seraphim and they would like you to sing your way in. What's the piece you sing? 

Michele Kennedy (34:18)
I love from Cantata 151, Süßer Trost. I love that aria. That's a candidate. I will tell you that also the Poulenc Gloria, which I was so honored to sing with the Bach Society of St. Louis in 2019. Is one of my favorite pieces in the universe and if I could sing one of those arias, I would.

Ron Klemm (34:44)
I can't wait. Although we will wait. 

Michele Kennedy (34:50) 
Hopefully, I've got a few years yet. 

Ron Klemm (34:54)
We've got other things to do in the meantime. Thank you so much for spending time with us. You are a joy to be with. 

Michele Kennedy (35:02)
Thank you, Ron. It's been a total pleasure. 

Ron Klemm (35:03)
Rejoice greatly, how about that? 

Michele Kennedy (35:04)
Absolutely, every day.

Ron Klemm (35:59)
Just the final portion of Domini Deus Rex Celestis from The Gloria. by Francis Poulenc in a performance by the Bach Society of St. Louis in December 2019 at Powell Hall. The soloist? Soprano Michele Kennedy in her first appearance with the Bach Society. Musical portions today featured Michele with the Bach Society orchestra and chorus conducted by music director and conductor A. Dennis Sparger. Be sure to check out Michele Kennedy's new recording, In Her Hands, with the Agave Ensemble, available from Asus Productions. For more information, visit agavemusic.org.

Guests of The Bach Society stay at the Hilton St. Louis Frontenac Hotel, featuring old-world charm at the intersection of comfort and convenience. Subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at bachsociety.org.

About Episode 5

The Bach Society Chorus brings together people from all walks of life, united by their love for music. Led by Dr. A. Dennis Sparger, the members boast a collective 575 years of singing experience in the chorus. In this episode of Bach Talk, chorus members share stories of their musical upbringing, the significance of performing Bach's music and the joy music brings to their lives. They also answer the question, “What makes The Bach Society of Saint Louis unique?”

Tune in to hear directly from the vocalists who take great pride in preserving and performing great musical works for themselves and their audiences.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm (00:00)
This is Bach Talk.

They come together for a solitary purpose. Teachers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, people from all walks of life. Young and not so young. Professional singers and volunteers. They hail from all parts of the country, even the world. They wait. They focus. They watch the conductor. They breathe as one and then...

Who are these people? These voices that inspire, that stir our very souls. They sing of joy and sorrow, of conflict and peace, of life and death. They move us. They amaze us. They make us pause and reflect. They forget their own individual cares and struggles. They have a message to deliver. And then, they transport us to realms unknown.

Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Bach Talk, I'm Ron Klemm. Today we'll meet the Bach Society Chorus, a fascinating group of people, a group with many stories to tell. They are part of a legacy that has existed for more than 80 years. The youngest is still a teenager. The oldest? Well, I'll plead the fifth on that one.

Together, as I speak, they boast an unbelievable 575 years of singing in the Bach Society Chorus. Even more amazing, all of those collective years have been under the unprecedented tenure of current music director and conductor Dr. A. Dennis Sparger. We'll hear from Dennis shortly. Rehearsal is a magical time.

Weekly, these people come together ready to craft their collaborative art to join in that irreplicable exercise of singing together. As singers arrive, the anticipation is already palpable, and at the mid rehearsal break, the singers let go, laughing, sharing stories, catching up with each other's lives. So we ask again, who are these people?

Over the course of several weeks, we embarked on a mission to find out. Zach Singer, who is one, a fine tenor with the Bach Society Chorus, Zach and I greeted singers as they arrived. Or, summoned them over at the rehearsal break to our separate perches on opposite sides of the room. I'll identify those singers a little later.

With the help of editor Scott McDonald, we want to share just a portion of those conversations. As we chatted, it became clear immediately that music, singing in particular, was something they've always known. 

Carin Gado (04:07)
I was born into music. I think I don't remember a time when music wasn't a part of my life.

My mom is Swedish, and I know that she used to sing before we were all school-aged. We would sing every day around the piano. And then often send audio tapes home to my grandparents in Sweden. So we were singing, there was a book of songs that we sang all the time. Both in English, but Swedish songs too.

So I don't ever remember a time when I wasn't singing. Music was always a refuge for me. And it was a place that I went to and I never wanted to sully that in my young mind, I wanted to keep it for myself. I quickly discovered as I got older and I was in groups and then I started teaching private lessons, just like love, the more you give it away, the more it begets more musicians and more connection. 

Allen Schwamb (04:59)
I grew up singing in a very musical family. They were always singing together. My dad and mom and my younger sister and I. I used to even do quartets at church, , when I was younger than ten, my sister then three years younger than that probably.

So always singing. I started playing piano at age seven and music has just always, always been a part of my life. 

Allison Neance (05:23)
I don't remember not singing. We sang at home all the time, my mom played the piano, so we were always singing. In the car, oh my gosh, when I was a kid, we didn't have a radio in our car so we would sing or my dad would play the harmonica.

I remember being probably three and climbing up on the piano bench and trying to accompany myself so that I could sing. 

Andy Greenwood (05:48)
Well, you know, my parents didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up and my first instrument, I guess, was a cardboard keyboard at home and I learned to play the keyboard first on paper.

Zach Singer (06:02)
Was it being carried around like a keytar, or?

Andy Greenwood (06:04)
It was, I carried it around in my backpack, a treasured possession, actually. I don't know what happened to that paper keyboard, but my parents eventually got a small electric keyboard. And I took lessons for quite a number of years, played in the school band, and I think we didn't have a bassist one time, and so I was playing the bass part for Grease, which was interesting.

Zach Singer (06:27)
Now, that was on the real keyboard. I'm hoping not.. 

Andy Greenwood (06:29)
That was the real keyboard, yeah. 

Debbie Mann (06:30)
Well, my parents taught me to sing so I could sing in church and be able to participate. And then when I got old enough, I started singing in youth and adult choir and enjoyed making friends there. So they didn't really push me into it.

They just, um, wanted me to be able to participate and be involved and interested. So, um, they taught me how to sing and went from there. 

Matt McEuan (06:47)
Both of my parents were music teachers. So from a very young age, I was brought up singing, brought up around students being taught, and sang in church and school and those kinds of things.

My earliest musical memory was singing All I Want for Christmas is My Two Front Teeth, in a church Christmas concert. 

Nancy Green (07:09)
As a young child, singing in Sunday school. Part of what we did, we sang in Sunday school, we did Christmas programs every year, singing hymns in church. As a child, I was taking piano lessons, I played in the school band. College, they really didn't have a band, but they had a chorus. So, I auditioned for chorus. 

Rachel Jones (07:32)
I have sung ever since I can remember. So, my parents, um, always had music playing in our house at ridiculous volumes. When I think about it now if I was their neighbor, I probably would not have been too happy with them.

But we always listened to a lot of great music. A lot of Grateful Dead, Rolling Stones, I mean really just fun stuff that we all sang and danced around. It was a lot of fun. And on top of that, I was at church every Sunday. Singing hymns. And then when I was older, I sang in choir at my church and in my school. And I just always sang. I actually have never stopped. 

Rosalind Stevens (08:03)
Singing started in high school. I went to a very special high school in Detroit. My first year there, we did the B minor mass. And, it was, it was a school where, because kids came from all over the city. And the school was about a 10 minute bus ride away from Detroit's central hub where all the buses came in.

We would all take our neighborhood buses to downtown and catch a transfer and go up to Cass for about a 10 minute ride. But on the way home, the music kids would gather in the back of the bus on the way back downtown. And we'd sing the Cum Sancto Spiritu a cappella at the back of the bus. It was such fun.

So I just, I caught the, I got on fire for choir at, you know, an atmosphere like that. 

Ron Klemm (08:49)
That's quite a fugue to sing a cappella, by the way. 

Rosalind Stevens (08:51)
Yeah, yeah.

Scott MacDonald (09:16)
I always grew up singing. It was a part of my family. My grandparents sang in the church choir growing up, and I was in that choir loft as often as I could be. It was always just something that was around me and part of me. 

Dr. Shephali Wulff (09:31)
So my mom is a dancer and a choreographer. We grew up with music in our house. So my mom composes music, we had musicians in and out of our house, so there was really no choice that my brother and I were going to study music in some capacity.

So I actually started to take piano lessons, and the woman who was teaching me piano felt like my fingers when I was little were probably not great for piano, right or wrong, and so she had me switch to violin. And I took violin through the Suzuki method, and she would have me sing everything before I played it.

And so that's how I started singing. So she told my mom, you know, I think she has a reasonable voice. Um, and so I auditioned for the Glen Ellyn Children's Chorus when I was five. So I studied violin and voice simultaneously all throughout high school. 

Ron Klemm (10:20)
And this is in the Chicago area? 

Dr. Shephali Wulff (10:21)
The Chicago area. So I sang with Glen Ellyn Children's Choir until I graduated high school. And I played with the Youth Symphony of Chicago.

Susan Niederer (10:27)
I was in an experimental German program. There was an actual German lady who was our teacher. She taught us a lot of German songs, and we did folk dancing. And I just remember, I was in a district that had probably five or six elementary schools. And so we had an itinerant music teacher who would come around.

And I remember just thinking, Well, okay, I'll sing your little songs, but I know German songs. I started playing in the band when I was in fourth grade. After that, my parents bought me a little Magnus chord organ. I don't know if you know what that is, but it was 11:00 a little brown box and with a little knob to turn it on.

And there was a little keyboard, probably about an octave and a half. And then I don't remember, maybe six chord buttons, little dinky thing. And I was starting to read music. So they bought me little music books. And so I started playing little songs, pressing the chord buttons and picking out the melodies.

And then when they heard me playing things that were not in the music books, then my parents said, maybe we should get this child some piano lessons.

Ron Klemm (11:50)
When did you, um, did singing become important? Or was there a time when it was more than just fun, it was like, wow, this is something I need to do? 

Rosalind Stevens (12:04)
Basically high school. I told my parents and my piano teacher that I wanted voice lessons. And my piano teacher said, well, that means you can't be very serious about piano. I'm not going to teach you anymore. So she threw me out. So I had voice lessons and I was I was quite happy for a number of years after that. 

Maggie Loew (12:22)
I absolutely, I mean all through high school, you know, I went to the competitions and that was really cool. So people knew me as a singer and I mean it was kind of my little, my little niche in school, in high school.

So you know, you got to have something, so yeah, it was just something that it's just always spurred me on everywhere I've gone I've just needed to sing with other people. 

Andy Greenwood (12:47)
My church started off a kids choir. I joined and um, we had a change in pastor and it was quite interesting. They were sort of overly puritanical and they abolished the choir.

They believed only in unison singing, monophonic singing and I never quite understood why they got rid of the choir. I thought it was strange and I think that's why I've loved choirs as I got older because I never understood why someone would try to take that away from anybody, let alone a child. So I think I've loved choral music because of that experience. 

Nancy Green (13:20)
I think it was very gradual. Because when I first went to college, I was a business major. And at the end of four years, they had just started a new major in music, either conducting or organ playing. And so, I had had four years of organ lessons, and so I just went ahead and did another year, did all of the music classes, the theory classes, the orchestration, yeah, all of that. So, and I think that's when it flipped. 

Zach Singer (13:56)
When did this become important to you, or is it just because it was important to your parents, it was then important to you? 

Matt McEuan (14:01)
No, it was ingrained in me pretty early, but then, I, when I was a child in grade school, I joined the American Boy Choir, which was, at the time, a boarding school in Princeton, New Jersey, and so 6th through 8th grade I was in a boarding school with that would tour around and teach you your school subjects on the road while you toured the U. S. and the world. So that, that also was a great opportunity and got a lot of musical experience and life experience pretty early. 

Stephanie McSwain (14:32)
I think it was closer to high school when, you know, you're kind of looking for those groups of people that you know you mesh with. Those were my people singing everything from pop songs to Christian to rock, to classical, everything. Those were my people. 

Theresa Flores (14:49)
I mean, all that I've ever really wanted to do as a career is music. I've always really loved the idea of working in a church, which is why I decided to do that rather than teaching. Originally I got my first Paris job when I was 20. and just kind of kept learning and going as, as I went along.

Scott MacDonald (15:06)
It was always just something that was around me and part of me. Um, but it was something that I, I kind of lost for a while. College came and I didn't major in music, and I just kind of let it slip out of my life. It wasn't until I was in graduate school, my second year of graduate school, that I had a friend who just happened to be involved in a musical theater group and told me that I had to come and join.

And I did, and it was such a relieving and inspiring and motivating experience in my life that year that I, you know, when I started, Working full time, I resolved that I had to make that a part of my life. 

Zach Singer (15:51)
Now, was that just like an immediate, like you walked in the first rehearsal and realized, Oh, this is what I was missing, or was that?

Scott MacDonald (15:58)
It really was. It was just the immediate satisfaction of singing with other people. Of singing in a choir and harmonizing and being Not just one, but among many. 

Dr. Shephali Wulff (16:11)
You know, the older I got, there started to be a distinction between people that were really serious about studying music, and were going to pursue solo careers, um, and people who were doing it as a hobby. And I was one of those people. 

Ron Klemm (16:25)
And you were okay with that? 

Dr. Shephali Wulff (16:25)
I was fine with that. Because it filled a space in my life. I didn't need it to be something that I was going to do for money. It just brings me joy.

Ron Klemm (16:59)
What brings you joy? What is it that gives you the greatest joy?

Nancy Green (17:06)
I just love music. That's what I do in my regular life. It's just, my whole life is music. It's my release. I've learned so much about music, about singing, It just feeds your soul. 

Rachel Jones (17:25)
What gives me joy in like this context definitely is like working hard with my friends and producing something beautiful. I love that. 

Ron Klemm (17:33)
The process and the result. 

Rachel Jones (17:35)
Absolutely. What I really love about singing, especially singing masterworks, especially singing old music, is I do feel a connection to everyone who has sung this music before. And when I think about the audience, they are also connected to anyone who ever heard that. And what I love about it is they share that, but every person is internalizing and experiencing it in an entirely unique way.

Dan Denner (17:56)
I try to be a joyful person and that I have to sometimes force myself to be that at our last concert. Um, I looked over and my son came to our concert and, and afterwards he's like, dad, that's just incredible. And he's a nine year old kid. When I was a nine year old kid, I was not thinking about choral music or orchestra music.

And he just said how beautiful it was. And that gave me so much joy. That, that to me is, you know, Enough reason to keep doing it. 

Rosalind Stevens (18:24)
When the stuff we struggle with comes together and then blossoms into something meaningful and beautiful, it's that, it's that working journey. Then we finally arrive at that point where we think, Aha, this is it, so this is, this is why we're doing it.

The joy of singing, the joy of the, it's, it's, sometimes it's a total body experience to breathe and listen and sing and just feel your whole body making that sound and contributing to that overall glorious sound that The Bach Society has.

Zach Singer (19:22)
Why the Bach Society? 

Matt McEuan (19:24)
For me, it's that there is such a strong emphasis on both the musical aspect of, of choral music and the mission of performing sacred choral music. Great music and sacred music and it's a, it would be a treat to have either one of those on its own, but to have both of them in the same choir at such a high level is very special.

Maggie Loew (19:49)
I, I tell you, and I think part of it is I've been here so long. So I know so many people. There's so many roots here, and there's so many wonderful people in this chorus. I am just 20:00 so thrilled to be here because the bar is so high that I feel like every Monday night when I leave, I have really accomplished something tonight, you know?

Andy Greenwood (20:10)
I love Bach. I don't know what it is about his music that connects with me. It's something on a spiritual level, on a musical level. I love this particular choir, the people in the choir. You'll learn some wonderful music in this choir. It's not just Bach, it's obviously other things. The choir is extremely active in the community. They have this wonderful program of outreach and education. 

Carin Gado (20:34)
The people are very friendly. The quality of the music is outstanding. For me, music is about connection. Connection to people that I'm singing with, but also connection, really with greatness and with inspiration. And you can only sort of feel that inspiration once you reach a level of musicianship.

Scott MacDonald (20:54)
I think it's one of the most rewarding and rich experiences I've had as a singer. Working, for one, with Dr. Sparger is just a fantastic experience. But it's just such a really dedicated and passionate community of singers that really has been such a galvanizing experience to sing with. 

Zach Singer (21:18)
Why have you stuck around this long? Is it Dennis? Is it the music? What is it? 

Shaun Neance (21:22)
You know, it's a lot of things. I think, you know, one of the big things is the organization. They have a strong support organization, I think both in the board of directors and then administratively, you know, in the front office with the executive director, and there's always been a consistency there that has kept.

And, and I will credit Dennis with that too. The, you know, as a music director. keeping the level of output of the group so consistent. If you don't already know that you, when you hear the group, and then you hear the name The Bach Society, you will come to expect a level of, you know, a certain bar of musicianship and professionalism.

And I think, you know, again, when you hear it, you'll know the difference. There is no such beauty as where you live.

Ron Klemm (22:30)
The Bach Society Chorus conducted by A. Dennis Sparger with just a small portion of “The Road Home”. And before that, “I Have Called You By Name”. The music of the late Stephen Paulus, one of a number of composers who have written music specifically for the Bach Society. More from members of the chorus, plus a word from Maestro Sparger straight ahead. You're listening to Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm (23:02)
Suppose that we couldn't have any audience. What would motivate you to still come on a Monday night and rehearse with the Bach Society? Would you still do it? 

Rosalind Stevens (23:11)
Absolutely. I still have the same experience whether anybody's listening or not. It's gratifying to understand that we share that with people, but we have that experience whether we share it with an audience or not, because we share it with each other.

Rachel Jones (23:26)
You know, I was in like little living room groups of early musicians when, you know, when I lived in Germany and we didn't perform in any capacity anything like this. And it was still fun, but it's very rewarding to share your art. The audience, you do it for the audience. You want to just share that experience.

We work so hard week to week to pick the music apart, to get everything just perfect, to put it back together and to share it. So, to have that, that church or that concert venue full of people who need to hear what we're doing and what we're singing and the texts that we're singing, that's huge. To know that even one song out of an entire repertoire list can touch one person, that's enough.

Ron Klemm (24:19)
What if there were no audiences?

Stephanie McSwain (24:21)
Oh no. 

Ron Klemm (24:21)
Would you still do it? 

Stephanie McSwain (24:22)
Yeah, I would, but it wouldn't, it wouldn't be quite the same. 

Ron Klemm (24:25)
Why? 

Stephanie McSwain (24:26)
It's amazing to be here every Monday and rehearse and have that sense of community, um, and to shut part of my brain off, right? And explore a different part of my brain, but there, when we're singing in front of an audience, there's energy that's coming back from the audience.

It's sort of like giving a gift. That's how I think about it. It is nice to receive a gift. It's also really satisfying to give a gift that you know is meaningful. And being able to share what we're working on over six weeks with an audience feels like giving a gift. 

Maggie Loew (25:14)
But I gotta tell you, Dennis is the real deal. He is a phenomenal director, and every year he gets better. He's very demanding, but in a very nice way. Okay, so, but, but he knows what he wants, and we do it over and over until we get exactly what he wants. And that is why we can rise to the accomplishments that we get to. 

Stephanie McSwain (25:38)
Nobody directs a choir like Dennis. He, he gets it. It's more than just the notes on the page. The background that he brings with the historical aspect of everything to draw out exactly how it was meant to sound. 

Theresa Flores (25:54)
Getting to work with somebody like Dennis is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I, you know, I've had the opportunity to study under some great conductors but like his efficiency of rehearsal is very inspiring to me as a choral conductor.

Rachel Jones (26:07)
It's the dedication that Dennis has and his care for every programmatic decision that he's thinking so much about this balance of giving the audience an incredible experience but also serving the singers as well in a way like presenting us with interesting repertoire, presenting us with a challenge and that's such a hard balance to strike and I've seen him do it consistently.

Ron Klemm (26:39)
We've heard the thoughts of nearly a third of The  Bach Society of Saint Louis Chorus. And in the end, they paid tribute to the high bar of musicianship, keen community awareness, and rock solid stability provided by their artistic leader. Appropriate then, that we hear his take. Zach Singer talked to Bach Society music director and conductor since 1986, Dr. A. Dennis Sparger. 

Zach Singer (27:10)
What makes The  Bach Society of Saint Louis different than any other choral organization?

Dennis Sparger (27:15)
Well, yeah, at my last count there were more than 40 independent choruses in the St. Louis region. They all serve a special purpose. And all of them are needed to serve the interests and the abilities of singers all over our community.

Our focus, of course, is on the music of Bach and to sing the music of Bach, this requires vocal training for our singers, some exceptional musicianship. The ability to blend the voice, solid intonation, flexibility of vibrato. Our singers have to be experienced singing in German and Latin, and Germanized Latin.

Our rehearsals are pretty intense. You know, we stop, of course, every once in a while to lighten up, maybe to have a laugh, and then we get right back to work. So we also need a lot of concentration to go two and a half hours and stay on top of everything we're doing. We also expect our singers to have a commitment to attending rehearsals regularly and to have individual preparation so they come to a rehearsal really ready to go, because rehearsals tend to be more about the interpretation of the music, the final shaping of it, and hardly ever about the learning of notes.

Some of the major Bach works we have on a rotation for example, we receive funding to cover the expenses of performing Bach's Mass in B Minor every three years. in perpetuity. That's huge. But it's also about who we are. That's the work that the Bach Society began with. It's the work that our founder came back to again and again to perform.

 And it's one that means so much to us as well. A few words about the preparation and execution. A few years ago, our friend David Gordon was here with us for a week during the Bach Festival. And, you know, he's a great Bach singer and Bach educator. And, and one of the things he told us that I remember so well is that you don't have to be a Lutheran to sing Bach.

You don't have to be a Christian. You don't even have to be a believer. But what you must know is that Bach was all three. And that helps us, I think, whether we're doing the music of Bach. or any other composer, to trying to understand the perspective of the composer when the music was being written and how it relates to us and then to our audience.

For me, as the conductor. You know, I have to study this music, you know, months in advance, sometimes years in advance. You know, look for relationships within the music look at its overall shape, its historical context, and determine an interpretation, um, that helps reveal to our performers and our audience what this music is all about.

My goal is to present a performance that A composer coming back to life today would recognize as his own piece. Um, I realized that when Bach presented something to his audience, they had never heard Mozart, or Beethoven, or Wagner, or Stravinsky. So what we need to do is try to find how did audiences respond to his music in those days, and then what do we do today to bring that same response back from the singers? 

Zach Singer (30:30)
That seems like a large challenge.

Dennis Sparger (30:33)
It is a bit challenging. But sometimes it means a chord might be louder than usual. Or there may be a greater pause between one little section and another. Um, we may have a little more excitement, a little faster rhythm to try to help our audience connect with what the composer had in mind for his audience.

As a conductor, I strive for clarity and consistency in each rehearsal and each performance. I want my singers and my orchestra players to know that what they see me do in the first rehearsal is what I will do in the fifth rehearsal and the eighth rehearsal, the dress rehearsal, and then the final performance with the exception of what I call the 95 percent rule.

And that is I want everyone to know exactly what I'm going to do Except for what may change at that moment of inspiration when there's an audience behind us listening. And for a good example of that in our most recent concert that just had some incredibly beautiful music I reached a point In conducting this piece, this magnificent piece, I realized they don't need me anymore.

I can just drop my hands and listen like anyone in the audience and just take it all in. And just be a part of the listening experience. And then, of course, pick up when I realized, you know, singers and players needed to see the downbeat again. That's fair. But it was, you know, quite exciting. 

Zach Singer (31:58)
Speaking from the audience, from the ensemble side, it shows that you trust us.

Dennis Sparger (32:02)
I do trust. 

Zach Singer (32:03)
In a way that not a lot of organization leaders tend to. 

Dennis Sparger (32:06)
I think our organization just has a lot of trust going in both directions. The singers know they can trust me, and I know I can trust them to follow through. 

Zach Singer (32:17)
On that line then, what do you want the legacy of the Bach Society to mean? 

Dennis Sparger (32:21)
Ah, the legacy question. Well, our founder, William Heyne, devoted over half his life to founding and leading and shaping The  Bach Society of Saint Louis. He was motivated to share the music of Bach with all the people of our community. He was followed by four, you know, incredible conductors who continued with the music of Bach and broadened our repertoire with music by other composers as well.

My responsibility has been to maintain and uphold this legacy. That's focused on the music of Bach and to bring our performances to ever higher levels of performance so we really reach our audiences with dramatic and exciting music. I hope that through my work I'm able to inspire our performers and the audience with significant and meaningful music choral music is to me a Brings our connection with great art, you know, painters and sculptors from a century or two or three or four or five ago, you know, have their great works of art in museums that we can go and visit. But our job is to bring to life these great pieces of art from our past. I find in the music we perform, it reaffirms our faith, and it also brings comfort and hope to our audiences.

Ron Klemm (34:13)
A portion of the Sanctus from the Mass in B minor by Johann Sebastian Bach. That's from a concert in March of 2022. All musical excerpts taken today from concerts by the  Bach Society of Saint Louis, with the exception of piano pieces recorded by Bach Society accompanist for the past 26 seasons, Sandra Geary.

Special thanks today to interviewer Zach Singer for drawing out those shy and reserved members of the Bach Society Chorus. And to editor Scott McDonald for creating the audio montages. Participating chorus members included Alison Neace, Allen Schwamb, Andy Greenwood, Carin Gado, Dan Denner, Debbie Mann, Maggie Loew, Matt McEuan, Nancy Green, Rachel Jones, Rosalind Stevens, Scott MacDonald, Shawn Neace, Dr. Shephali Wulff, Stephanie McSwain, Susan Niederer and Theresa Flores. Additional assistance for today's episode provided by Rachel Jones, Ila Klemm and Dennis Sparger. Subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at bachsociety.org. Bach Talk is a trademark of the  Bach Society of Saint Louis. I'm Ron Klemm.

About Episode 4

Join us for a captivating profile of Dutch soprano Josefien Stoppelenburg in the latest episode of Bach Talk with host Ron Klemm. This conversation offers a look into her love for music, visual art and her formative musical experiences in the Netherlands. Josefien’s beautiful paintings and other works of art are eclipsed only by her magnificent voice. She shares her approach to singing, which emphasizes thorough preparation and emotion, experiences performing with her sister and even her favorite TV show. Don’t miss the chance to learn more about this dazzling artist.

Connect with Josefien

Josefienstoppelenburg.com | josefienstoppelenburg-art.com

About Episode 3

This episode of Bach Talk captures a visit with host Ron Klemm, The Bach Society of Saint Louis' Music Director and Conductor A. Dennis Sparger and harpsichordist Dr. Charles Metz. He gives insights into the history of the harpsichord, the instrumentalist’s role in an ensemble and his personal experiences as a musician. Throughout the conversation, Charles plays examples on some of his many instruments. Tune in to hear this dynamic musician and charming instrument firsthand.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm 0:00
This is Bach Talk.

What you're hearing is not Bach. In fact, it's music that was written nearly 100 years before Johann Sebastian Bach was born. The composer, well, we're not even absolutely certain of that. It's attributed to a William Tisdale from 16th century England. But it's the instrument and the artist who provide the most intrigue.

Hello, I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to Bach Talk This little Lavon is being played on a remarkable 430 year old keyboard instrument called the virginal. It's an instrument with an amazing story and we'll hear more about it shortly. And it's being played by an even more amazing person. Dr. Charles Metz is both an optometrist, and a qualified degreed expert in historical music performance. nevermind the fact that he's also a marvelous performer and a genuinely nice guy. Charlie is the man in the middle of the Bach Society Orchestra. From the harpsichord, he provides the center of the musical focus from his pivotal position, the drama and excitement radiate. We sat down with Charlie not too long ago, and not long after he had had some rather serious surgery on his vocal cords. But not to worry, he's back to normal. He was just a tad hoarse. When we sat down for our little chat. Dennis Sparger, music director and conductor of the Bach Society joined us in the beautiful mellow library at Ladue Chapel. We wanted to learn more about Dr. Charles Metz, the man, his music, his dual paths in life, and his myriad of keyboard instruments. So how did it all begin?

Charles Metz 2:28
I had two older sisters, that both played the piano, and me being the only boy and being very competitive, decided that I needed to do what they were doing, and that I could do it better. So I had the sort of unfortunate habit of finding out what their pieces were that they were to learn for their lesson. And I would then learn the pieces because I was a fairly quick learner. And then I'd say, Is this the piece you're supposed to play for your lesson this week?

Ron Klemm 3:00
Now, how old are you?

Charles Metz 3:02
About seven, eight.

Ron Klemm 3:03
Wow, the Mozart.

Charles Metz 3:07
My mother thought I was a Mozart. Sadly, it was not quite the case. So those are my first memories. So, you know, music became very, very important for me, in playing the piano was just a unique experience. For me. It's something that came very naturally for me. And it always was a great pleasure for me. And I kept it all my life.

Ron Klemm 3:27
And when did you decide, You know what, this is more than just fun? I could do this?

Charles Metz 3:34
That's a hard question. In a way, I always sort of thought that. That it would be, in a way, not my full passion, but definitely a full part of my life. In fact, I started out in pre med in college, it did switch back into music, and then finished a degree in Music here at Washington University, but then ended up being an optometrist for 20 years in such a way that I can now go back and enjoy music to the level that I want. So it's been a great, great travel for me and music has been a constant companion.

Ron Klemm 4:08
So we can call you Dr. Dr. Charles Metz.

Charles Metz 4:11
Technically, that is correct.

Ron Klemm 4:15
Let's talk about the second doctor, which is the historical performance practice doctorate that must be something that really floated your boat at the time.

Charles Metz 4:28
Actually, it was my first doctorate I did the music first and then went into optometry as a means to an end, so to speak. But I had some friends I was at Penn State University and there was a group that I played with, and we were all doing early music with harpsichord. And they had gotten scholarships to come to Washington University, because at that point, they had a program in what was called historical performance practice, which is based on understanding music as it was composed in the time and what the composer's knew in terms of what they heard and the instruments that they had available. So it's all about reinterpreting music, as it was as much as we can make happen, heard by the composers of their day. And I resonated with that. I thought it was a very appropriate way to understand music and to perform music because it brings an insight into it that isn't flavored by 19th century stylistic changes.

A. Dennis Sparger 5:28
And that kind of brings me to the time when I met you, I calculated earlier today how long we've known one another, rather than mention, I'll just say it's from the last century and, and you came to join a group I was conducting at the time called The Masterworks Chorale, and you played in a Madrigal Feast. And, of course, you had to put on tights and

Charles Metz 5:52
I remember of that very well.

A. Dennis Sparger 5:52
slippers and all of this.

Ron Klemm 5:54
Are there pictures?

A. Dennis Sparger 5:54
I think there are, how did you feel about doing something unusual is that?

Charles Metz 5:59
I actually enjoyed it, because actually, it wasn't my first time I had a gig one summer playing at Williamsburg, Virginia at the Busch Gardens, and I was playing at the Elizabethan Globe. And so I was in tights and with the whole the whole guard. And I had built a virginal and we would carry it out and play for 20 minutes and then would carry it back in again. So So I was I was accustomed to tights and in collars, ruffled collars.

A. Dennis Sparger 6:25
Oh, wow, what what fun those days were when I started conducting the Bach Society in 1986. You played in that first performance? And the big piece on the program was Contado, 51 by Bach. And Christine Brewer was the soloist?

Charles Metz 6:41
Yes. If we'd only known at that time.

A. Dennis Sparger 6:43
Had we only known at that time?

Well, I think we did actually,

Where she would end, Of course, we're all of us would have gone with our careers as well. Yeah. I've kind of wondered, in all of these years that you've played with us, has there been a favorite performance or a highlight that really sticks with you?

Charles Metz 7:00
Well, there have been a lot I certainly enjoyed a lot of the Handel Oratorios that we did. But I have to say that going back to the Bach B minor, always thrills me. And even the Messiah. You know, I have a love hate with Messiah.

Ron Klemm 7:15
I think a lot of people do.

Charles Metz 7:17
I've heard it so many times. And I've played it so many times. But every time I go on, not again, but every time I'm playing it, it moves me and is quite thrilling. So

A. Dennis Sparger 7:27
it's a great piece of music,

Charles Metz 7:28
It is.

A. Dennis Sparger 7:28
even if it is done, you know, so many times, yes.

Charles Metz 7:31
And I have to say the Bach Society has given me some of the most beautiful highlights musically in my life. I remember just sitting in the orchestra and having chills go down my spine because of the things that I heard and things that I was participating in. So I will always, always thank The Bach Society for those opportunities.

A. Dennis Sparger 7:48
That's wonderful. We feel those things too.

Ron Klemm 7:51
You mentioned the word virginal, and I want to make sure that people heard it right. But we're going to talk more about that and about a lot of other keyboard instruments when we come right back. I'm with Maestro Dennis Sparger and our special guest today, Dr. Dr. Charles Metz. I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.

We're talking with Charlie Metz, who is do you say principal harpsichordist, with The Bach Society, or we're gonna call him that today.

A. Dennis Sparger 8:36
He is the only harpsichordist. I think in all of these years that I've used someone else, I think maybe twice at the most when you were previously booked, and we couldn't get you.

Ron Klemm 8:45
I think that qualifies this. I guess not all harpsichords are created equal.

Charles Metz 8:50
That was quite correct, Ron.

Ron Klemm 8:52
So so go ahead and play the historical performance card here and help us understand what some of these instruments are like.

Charles Metz 9:01
One of the things I find fascinating about this world of keyboards in the 18th century, is it wasn't uniform. There wasn't just one harpsichord. Like we have one modern piano now that everyone's used to and you see it and you hear it and you know it. Back in the day they were Flemish harpsichords, French harpsichords, German harpsichords, Italian harpsichords. And they all were slightly different in terms of their construction. The words that they used, even the keyboards were a little bit different styles and different sizes. And they also match the music of that country and exploited the elements of say Italian music, which have a much more pungent kind of speaking, where the French harpsichord is much silkier, and smoother and a sound which sort of reflects the suave nature of the high French society.

Ron Klemm 9:53
You've got a couple of instruments here we want to play some examples of tell us about these Flemish instruments now

Charles Metz 10:00
Flemish harpsichords there was one particular family called the Ruckers family, which was a multi generational family from father to son to grandson, and they were building harpsichords at the highest level in Antwerp, and they were considered today they are considered considered the Stratovarius of the harpsichord world. These were highly prized instruments. In fact, they were used 100 years later to be rebuilt and what's called rafamonte where they made them larger so they would have expanse that they could play the later repertoire, but the sound was was the true sound of a harpsichord and it's never really changed and, and so the Flemish harpsichord is, to me one of the truest and most pure harpsichord sounds.

A. Dennis Sparger 10:54
Sounds like the gold standard.

Charles Metz 10:56
Absolutely. And it still is today, a lot of the Bakers who still make harpsichords often still copy Ruckers instruments.

Ron Klemm 11:03
So let's, can we listen to a little Bach from this 17th century, flemish instrument?

Charles Metz 11:07
I have a particular instrument that sets at the Metropolitan Museum in New York, the instrument at the Met does not play. But I had a builder friend, Walter Burr, who made a copy of it, it took him five years to do this copy. But it is a really excellent reproduction of this particular instrument, as it would have been built in about 1650.

Ron Klemm 11:30
And here's a little bit of music on that harpsichord from one of the Bach's French Suites.

We're talking with Charlie Metz, our harpsichordist with The Bach Society of St. Louis Dennis Sparger, our music director alongside tell us a little bit more Charlie about these, these, these instruments or let's let's pick it up from that 17 century Flemish instrument what came next?

Charles Metz 12:53
Well, we can even go behind a little bit or before I do have an original 400 year old Italian virginal that I actually found in Fairview Heights, a neighborhood of St. Louis, about 10 years ago, and no, actually a little bit longer. But it was being sold as a piece of painted furniture, I was able to get it, get it restored. And it turns out is one of 18 in the world by this particular maker, who died in Florence, Italy in 1634. We believe this instrument I have was probably built at around 1590. So it's a late Renaissance, early early Baroque instrument. And they were very much favored during the Elizabethton times. In fact, Queen Elizabeth had an Italian virginal of very similar to this. And so I'm very happy to have this instrument. I have played it around the country. I have played it at the Smithsonian. And I've recently about two years ago did a CD on it as well.

A. Dennis Sparger 13:47
Wow.

Charles Metz 13:48
Which is available on Apple Music and Spotify and all the rest of it.

Ron Klemm 13:51
Very good. What's the title of it?

Charles Metz 13:53
is called Tisdale Virginal Music.

Ron Klemm 13:55
Wonderful. We will look that up. I can only imagine the the word fragility comes to mind. You play on this instrument and I don't wouldn't want to get near it. I'm afraid I you know, spill something on it.

Charles Metz 14:10
Well, of course there is that but it has survived 400 years. So it's a pretty tough little cookie. It's gone through a lot and still come out just fine on the other side. So yeah, a lot of people think that harpsichords are terribly fragile. And of course there is there's a certain nature that is could be destroyed, I suppose if something terrible happened to it, but but they are actually a well balanced and well built instrument that can stand quite, quite a lot.

Ron Klemm 14:36
When people people talk about piano, they know that you press the key and a hammer is activated and hits a string. The sound is made differently with a harpsichord. So first of all, explain how a harpsichord is sounded.

Charles Metz 14:52
Well, very simply. The harpsichord mechanism was around for about 300 years. And it is a simple jack or a piece of wood that out of the top is a plectrum, which comes up and actually plucks the string on the way up, and then is cut in such a way that it'll swivel past the string on the way down. And then a piece of felt will dampen the string. So we have no pedals like you have on a on a piano, there's no ability to make it ring longer except to hold it with your fingers. So it's a very simple plucking mechanism. And because of that, there are no dynamics, no matter how hard you hit the key is always the same loudness. So just like an organ you have different stops, you have different colors that you can use. But all the expression is done through what are called agogic accents, slight little rhythmic accents, and also through what's called articulation. If you put a space before a note, the ear perceives that that note is being louder. And so it's a very subtle way of being able to create phrasing and create tension within a line of music by by these what are called articulations.

A. Dennis Sparger 16:00
Well, I've noticed in the past that sometimes you play more notes to get more sound, or fewer notes to be softer. We've had you a few times as a soloist. A few years ago, we did Bach's Brandenburg 5, and we're doing that again, this coming spring along with a harpsichord concerto by Bach. But most often you're playing continuo with us. And well, musicians tend to understand what that word means. A general audience may not they may see listed in the program and continual and 2, 3, 4 names listed. But what is that?

Charles Metz 16:33
Yes, great question. And a lot of people don't know. And this is one of the other things that drew me to the harpsichord because I'm not just playing notes that are written out on the page, for me continuo, in a way is a very early cheat sheet or jazz, kind of ability to play whatever you feel like however, you want to make the sound, fuller, less full. And basically what they did is they had a number system that would go underneath the what's called the baseline. And that number system will tell you what harmony to play. And that's all I've got. So you learn those numbers, you learn the harmonies. And then from there, you make up the music as you go. And I think that's the thrilling part of playing continuo.

A. Dennis Sparger 17:18
Yeah, I think you have to, like create melody on top of that like to be able to go counter melody to whatever else was going on.

Charles Metz 17:24
Exactly. And that was all part of the teaching back in the 18th century. They didn't teach people just to read music and play. They taught them how to compose. And that was part of it. And and Bach did that with his students, of course. And so yeah, so reading the figure bass was step one, and then adding melodic and elaborations on the melody was step two and composing the step three.

A. Dennis Sparger 17:45
So essentially, you're looking at one staff with the bass part, and with the numbers or figures underneath, hence the name of the figured bass. And then you create the top. If you're lucky, you may get another staff that shows you like what a singer is doing. Especially if you're accompanying recitative. So you have an idea of where to place the harmonies. Do you change the the information, you know, like the realization of the chords or the voicing of them? Or the melodic part? Do you change that every time you play?

Charles Metz 18:14
Yes, I do, actually. And I find it actually difficult to sit in practice continuo by myself. I really only can do it when I'm playing with somebody because then I can bounce off of them and I can respond and that's what continuo is all about.

A. Dennis Sparger 18:28
Well, you could sing and play at the same.

Charles Metz 18:30
Not these days.

Ron Klemm 18:32
Not today. Speaking of the 18th century, you also have or play often a Is it your instrument, French 18th century instrument?

Charles Metz 18:41
I do, it was when I first harpsichords.

Ron Klemm 18:43
Okay, and tell us about that.

Charles Metz 18:44
I met this harpsichord builder in upstate New York by the name of Walter Berg. And he has studied with some of the famous makers in Boston. And he was making historical copies, you know, 30 years ago, and he copied an instrument that's at the Smithsonian in Washington, DC. It was a French instrument that was made in 1760. And it's a stillan instrument, and it's a double manual and covers all the repertoire of the 18th century and it's still I still have the instrument it's still a favorite of mine.

Ron Klemm 19:17
But compared to the instrument we heard a little bit earlier. What's the difference?

Charles Metz 19:23
The stringing is slightly different. The scale length is different, where the plectrum plucks the string is slightly different, or which creates a slightly different sound, and it'll be more mellow, and a little bit more.

Ron Klemm 19:37
It's warmer.

Charles Metz 19:38
Yes,

Ron Klemm 19:39
Don't you think?

Charles Metz 19:39
Yeah.

Ron Klemm 19:40
Let's hear a little Bach played on that. 18th century French harpsichord.

Ah, Bach played on the harpsichord by our special guest, Charlie Matz, who is principal harpsichordist. With the box Society of St. Louis. We're here with Dennis Sparger it's it's exciting to talk about these things. But I just wonder if if people really understand that you're right in the middle of everything. That must be a special spot?

Charles Metz 20:40
Well, of course it is. And back in the old days, we didn't have to conductors very often in the in the Baroque time, and it was the harpsichordist's job to lead the orchestra or sometimes the first violinists. But you're absolutely right, the harpsichord is in the middle of it. And the other aspect of the harpsichord and why it was so popular within a group is that it functions in two ways. One is because the pluck of the harpsichord is so precise, that it allows the orchestral members to hear the beat. So it's very important for the harpsichord is to keep the beat and to keep the tempo steady, or whatever it's doing so that they can hear it. So there's the element of the harpsichord is an ensemble thing that keeps the group together.

Ron Klemm 21:26
Sounds like in other types of music to be the drummer, given the beat.

Charles Metz 21:30
In a way, you're absolutely right.

Ron Klemm 21:54
We're talking to Charlie Metz, our harpsichordist, and you have a kind of a I don't want to say dual citizenship. But you've, you've spent an awful lot of time here in St. Louis. But now you're kind of spending time in the West these days a little bit. Tell us more about that.

Charles Metz 22:10
Well, again, my life is, is directed by my musical pursuits. I was in St. Louis for many, many years. And then I branched out to Chicago, and worked with various groups up there. And now I've pulled out of Chicago completely. I did a lot of work in Kansas City, as well. And I've gone to California and recently rented a house. I'm living in Palm Springs, but I rented a house in downtown LA, once again, to expand my musical context. And I'm having a great time doing it. I you know, music drives me, every day I wake up thinking about it and what I can do with it.

A. Dennis Sparger 22:48
Do you always have a performance to look forward to in the near future?

Charles Metz 22:53
Yeah, I have certainly before COVID, I was doing a performance nearly every two weeks somewhere. Everything quieted down to of course, during COVID. I kind of liked that actually, it was kind of fun. So I'm not doing as much as I did. But no, I'm still I'm still driven by performance. I still love doing it. I still love getting in front of the audience. And it's, it gives me a lot of inspiration.

Ron Klemm 23:14
I think I know the answer. We have them ask it anyway. You don't need to be coming back to St. Louis all the time and performing with the Bach Society, yet you do it?

Speaker 2 23:23
Well, of course I do it because I've been doing this for a long time. It's tradition, you know, and I have friends here and, and The Bach Society is a very good musical group. And, you know, I'll play with any group that's a high level and Bach Society, it certainly is that so yeah, I will I will do it as long as they ask me.

A. Dennis Sparger 23:39
You're very kind. This is a little bit off the topic of harpsichord but still within the realm of keyboard. You know, I still remember when you when you brought to town, your forte piano and played at the home of Todd and Kathryn Edwards. So we're in a very, very large living room. But hearing that instruments, and I'll never forget you're playing Beethoven's Fifth release a piece that somewhat is boring because you know, children work on this. And yet to hear this played on the 40 piano was just a revelation. It just was amazing. Such an experience. And I know you're doing other music on the fortepiano as well.

Charles Metz 24:21
Yes, thanks, Dennis. I appreciate that comment. And that goes drives home. My whole idea of historical performance practice you when you play music on any instrument that it was written for, sometimes you can get an insight that you didn't have before. And the Forte piano is a much lighter sound much more transparent. And the fortepiano I have has some extra sort of stops, there's what's called a moderator, which puts fell between the hammer in the string so it creates this muted sound. And I use that on that that piece, and it creates another whole world of sound that they were very familiar with. Remember, the piano just didn't get invented? Why? One day the harpsichord was dying out, the piano was being invented and the early pianos had many different stops just like the harpsichord did. So it was the transition through those instruments until we get to the modern piano that basically has an una corta, which doesn't change much, and a damper pedal. And that's all there is. There's no other ways to change the sound. And these early instruments had many ways of changing

Ron Klemm 25:22
and Beethoven

Charles Metz 25:23
they knew this

Ron Klemm 25:24
they knew this Yeah, yes, yeah, pretty amazing.

A. Dennis Sparger 25:27
We've read that Bach was not too impressed with the Forte piano, but I think that was rather earlier in his life. And he may have changed his opinion, by the time he came to the end.

Charles Metz 25:36
Exactly. Right. He actually, there's been more research recently, and he actually became a salesman for or at least spoke well, for a certain piano builder at the time. The early instruments he played were not good mechanically. And I think that was this issue. But as they got better, he really grew to like it. Yeah. And certainly, son CPE Bach,

A. Dennis Sparger 25:58
Yes. Oh, yeah.

Charles Metz 25:59
Certainly took it.

A. Dennis Sparger 26:00
Do you think you're ready to take up the accordion?

Charles Metz 26:02
Well, maybe someday,

A. Dennis Sparger 26:05
I've got one I can sell you.

Ron Klemm 26:06
And I know a great teacher. Yes. What gives you the greatest joy?

Charles Metz 26:15
I hesitate, but I have to say the some of the greatest joy is not just performing but it's actually practicing. There's nothing more beautiful than getting up in the morning. And then walking over the harpsichord and sitting down and playing a  Prelude and Fugue No.1 Well Tempered Clavier Bach, it just starts my day. And it there's something so, so magical and so life affirming for me. And Bach comes into that a lot. But just playing the instrument and practicing. And now with these other pianos, I have a square piano now, and I'm recently getting a later 1838 piano copy that's being built for me. You know, all these different sounds just continue to inspire me.

Ron Klemm 27:01
If we for some reason, the music was taken away, or or if there wasn't an opportunity to play. What else? What would you do? What other passions do you have?

Charles Metz 27:14
Well, I have thought about that. And I don't like to think about that, because I would think in some ways my life was over. Because that's how much music means to me. But I suppose I have a friend that was a very accomplished pianist, studied to Juilliard, etc. And then he had a massive stroke about four years ago, and he lost all control of his right side. But he was very much depressed. But he is now playing the piano and performing with his left hand alone and doing an amazing job. So he's an inspiration for me. So and he's also teaching and I think if something happened to me that I couldn't play, I think teaching would be something that I would gravitate towards. Well,

Ron Klemm 28:00
Thanks for spending time with us. Pleasure. That's Charles Metz, along with Dennis Sparger, I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.

The final moments of the first movement from Bach's Brandenburg Concerto Number 5, from a concert in the 2022 Bach Festival in St. Louis. The box society orchestra was conducted by Dennis Sparger, the harpsichordist, our very special guest today Dr. Charles Metz. Be sure to check out Charlie's recording on that circa 1590 virginal we talked about earlier. It's called William Tisdale music for Virginal on Navona Records available wherever you get your music, and watch for the release of his latest project, a collection of Scarlatti Sonatas, played on a period square fortepiano yet another example of the fascinating world of musical discovery that is Dr. Charles Metz.

About Episode 2

Get ready for another episode of Bach Talk as we dive deeper into the world of The Bach Society of Saint Louis with Music Director and Conductor A. Dennis Sparger. In this second installment of 'Meet the Maestro', we uncover more about the man behind the music and his remarkable journey. He also shares insights into the importance of teamwork, respect for volunteers and the power of Bach's music in uplifting and transforming people's lives. The episode also touches on Dr. William B. Heyne, the founder of The Bach Society, and how Dennis continues to carry on the legacy of Bach's music.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm 00:00
This is Bach Talk. I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the World to Come. The heart of the credo, I believe, as expressed in the music of Johann Sebastian Bach. You're hearing The Bach Society of Saint Louis in a performance of Bach's Mass in B minor, conducted by Dr. A Dennis Sparger. Hello, I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to Bach Talk. Dennis Sparger. became the music director and conductor of The Bach Society of Saint Louis in 1986. He recently surpassed founder Dr. William Heyne as the longest-tenured conductor in The Bach Society's 82-year history. Maestro Sparger has conducted more than 195 performances with a Bach Society, which means that before the current season concludes, he will have reached the 200th performance plateau. The number of singers that Dennis has led over the years can be measured in the 1000s and the cumulative audience that he has impacted with The Bach Society alone would fill st Louis's Busch Stadium twice. Last time on Bach Talk, we began this series of podcasts with the first part of our extended conversation with the maestro from the Sparger's breakfast room, we chatted about a bevy of topics. We learned all about Dennis's upbringing in Harvey, Illinois, just south of Chicago, about his first recollections of music at home, his musical development from starting on the accordion, to learning the piano, then the double bass and cello. And we heard about his side gigs too playing jazz around town in the evenings while pursuing his bachelor's degree at Eastern Illinois University. Today, we want to pick up where we left that conversation as a promising young conductor began to see his life's course unfold. One, which turned out to be his mother's plan all along.

Dennis Sparger 02:41
As I was wrapping up my senior year, I was a little ahead of the game because I was taking extra courses and I was able to get a little bit of a head start into a master's degree. And I was offered a position as a graduate assistant. So I would get free tuition and a very minor stipend. And by then I had a church choir. And I had a couple of bars where I played piano on weekends and was paid okay, and, and by that time I was married and had our little girl Cindy. And I thought if ever I'm going to get a master's degree, this is the time to do it. So we stayed on. And by that time we were living in student housing for married students. It was an area we called fertile acres. That's but it was a place to be a nice place to be and university supported. So the rent wasn't terribly high. Um, and during that summer when I was taking classes, another fellow came in from Germany. He was an American who had worked in Germany and played in studio bands, radio bands, playing really highly sophisticated jazz. And he was back at Eastern I think picking up a master's degree then. So we played what then used to be called jam sessions. I don't know what they call them. Now the players would just get together and we'd have like a common repertoire and we just played together and he played Valve Trombone, really well. And valve trombone, yeah. Wow. Yeah. And my my jazz piano playing by that time was fair. I got through. Well, I finished my master's degree and started looking for jobs and kept turning them down. And late in August, as Helene was going crazy thinking, will he ever get a job? An offer came from Urbana High School. So I took that job and it turned out to be a wonderful first-year position for me. Now the students, many were children of professors at University of Illinois, were so many of them were so gifted and talented. A couple of them had perfect pitch. Several played piano really well. And we just had a great year, but at the end of the Your I could see that a lot of wonderful seniors were leaving. And the counselors were advising students to take a fifth solid instead of choir. And I thought I can see where this is going. Well, I should mention here that every once in a while, in the mornings when I'd have my break, I'd go to the teacher's lounge and have a cup of coffee, with Igor Stravinsky's daughter-in-law.

Ron Klemm 05:23
Really?

Dennis Sparger 05:24
Yes, by then I was young and stupid and hardly knew that it was a big deal. It was a big deal. And and I should have used that you have that leverage to meet the master himself.

Ron Klemm 05:37
Wow.

Dennis Sparger 05:37
But there were wonderful times. This fellow who played valve trombone, by that time, had moved to Belleville. It was working in the junior college at that time, it was Belleville Junior College, and it but he was starting to grow and had a little bit of a music department built by one. And he wanted a choral director. He was looking for a choral director that could play jazz piano and drink beer.

Ron Klemm 06:04
For what reason? Who knows.

Dennis Sparger 06:07
But he had interviewed people from like the very fine universities. And he remembered me so he gave the call and we came down, took a look had a beer heavier, and it was about a 50% pay increase. And in addition to teaching, it offered summer school to teach and an evening overload class, and I thought, you know, you're I have a wife and a child, I have people to support and this is an opportunity, you know, to keep growing and, and helping my family at the same time. So we thought we'll come here for two years and then move on.

Ron Klemm 06:43
Well, I know that feeling so be you didn't know anything really about Belleville or the St. Louis area necessarily.

Dennis Sparger 06:49
I had a college roommate who was from Belleville and he had mentioned you know, what a very nice place it was to live. And it was not too unlike Harvey in South Chicago. Hardworking people that were generally pretty pleasant.

Ron Klemm 07:39
The concluding chorale from Der Geist Hilft, a double chorus motet by Johann Sebastian Bach, The Bach Society of Saint Louis in concert conducted by Dennis Sparger. More of our conversation with Maestro Sparger straight ahead. I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.

Melissa Payton 08:02
Hi there. I'm Melissa Payton, Executive Director of The Bach Society of St. Louis. Did you know that The Bach Society is St. Louis's oldest continuous Choral Society? For decades, The Bach Society of St. Louis has been the heartbeat of musical excellence, captivating audiences with unforgettable performances. Led by visionary music director and conductor A. Denis Sparger. The Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra breathe new life into each composition, infusing it with emotion and depth. We're committed to providing musical experiences and the tradition of Johann Sebastian Bach, and there's something for everyone to enjoy for Upcoming Events, digital offerings, and to stay up to date on all things Bach. Visit us at bachsociety.org.

Ron Klemm 08:58
As our conversation with Bach Society music director and conductor Dennis Sparger continues, we find the Spargers planting roots in the Greater St. Louis area, as Dennis was now teaching in a burgeoning junior college in Belleville, Illinois.

Dennis Sparger 09:14
So I started that first year with a college by I, you know, had the choir had a smaller group of singers and taught piano, taught voice, taught music appreciation, the works, the works, and met Sam Andrea who then later founded Andrea's restaurant who has a wonderful alto sax player, and played in his quartet for a while, started working in other clubs and restaurants around. And the years started going by. By the time I got to my fourth year, I had achieved tenure already and I thought, well, now I'm in a position where they can't fire me, and that's a good place to be. And I was just a few years away from qualifying for a sabbatical, and I knew that I had wanted to start a doctorate. So the way I did it was I started telling people, I'm going to get a doctorate. I'm going to go to the University of Illinois and get a doctor's degree in music. And I thought by telling everyone, I thought I sure better do this. See, you know, so I took the entrance exams, got approved, started taking the few classes they thought I needed. And meantime, I started going to some summer sessions there. Eventually, my turn came up for a sabbatical in those days, they provided half pay to go to school for a full year. And we thought, well, we can make this work. Well, we moved up. By that time, we'd bought a house, we rented our house out move to Urbana, started going to school, but by December, I realized this money is getting rather thin. With only half pay because the expenses didn't cut in half you know at all. So I found an agent and picked up a job playing at the Champaign Holiday and five nights a week. In those days, I think for about $200 a week.

Ron Klemm 11:05
While, while you're working on your doctorate?

Dennis Sparger 11:09
Yes.

Ron Klemm 11:09
Holy smokes.

Dennis Sparger 11:10
Yes. Yeah. So I get home at two or three in the morning.

Ron Klemm 11:13
No wonder you're a night owl.

Dennis Sparger 11:16
Not anymore, and be in class by nine the next morning. And, yeah, it was a real struggle. But I pushed my way through, took my final exams at the end of the year, and then started working on a paper, well came back to the college. And I realized, with all of this big music, I've been learning of your major works, especially and works for chorus and orchestra, I needed to start getting some experience in that area. Because my goal even then was to get a university job. So I talked to my dean about starting a Community Chorus. And, you know, my department head was all for it. The dean was all for it. The president of the college decided, yes, this would be great. So we started what was called the Belleville Area College Community Chorus. And we grew rather quickly with a lot of wonderful people, you know, from the adult world, and you know, some of my college students as well, and started doing a concerts, selling tickets, raising money, paying the orchestra hiring soloists, and all of this had to be run through the college. So we were thinking about how can we make this work a little more smoothly. So we petitioned to see if we could amicably divorce and that worked out very well, that we became an independent, you know 501c3 organization, became incorporated. We had people who could run the business side up quite well. And we, by that time to change the name to Masterworks Chorale, to kind of reflect the quality of music and performance that we were giving. And during the 80s and early 90s, especially Masterworks Chorale was performing at a very high level that compared you know, to the best in St. Louis. We just had great people that were coming in that had good musical skills. So that's how that happened.

Ron Klemm 13:13
And that's how we met I mean, it when in talking about the Masterworks Choral before you were asked to come to The Bach Society, well do you remember those days while that happened?

Dennis Sparger 13:25
Yes, I do. But the year before that masterworks said, I realized we needed to increase our publicity. Already the Belleville News Democrat was writing a nice little articles about us and that but we needed more help. So Sandy Wagner, Steve Bloomer, and I went to visit the publisher of the paper, who at that time was Darwin Wile and we sat down and talk to him. We did the whole spiel about here's who we are, here's what we do. Here's what's happening with community, here's what we need, here's the benefit. And we need some help, right? So he asked, well, what kind of help do you need from me? And I said, we need some help with advertising. He thought for a moment he said, Okay, we'll give you 500 column inches per year. Now, that's huge.

Ron Klemm 14:15
That's a lot.

Dennis Sparger 14:16
That means like quarter-page, half-page ads for each concert. Yeah. So in those days, people read newspapers. Yes. Yeah. If you live it on the side of the river, we're in Illinois, by the way, yeah. You bought the Belleville News Democrat and you see this. So we had these wonderful feature articles coming out by Roger Sleater. They would explain everything about a concert. And then these wonderful ads show up in the paper, no reviews. Thankfully, we had nothing we had to live down. And then we got up ready to leave thanked him profusely. And and Darwin said, Well, what else can we do? And we thought, well, we're thinking thinking, and we thought well with, we'd like to start a children's choir. And he says great, because I would like to write to our owners, which I think at that time was capital something or other and get a grant that would serve my community. So we worked out this deal that he would provide $5,000 If we could raise $5,000 to start a children's choir. So we started in the first year, I think we had about 60 singers come in. And these were five of the most wonderful years. I think I've ever lived that because anything you could teach, children could learn, right?

Ron Klemm 15:42
They were sponges.

Dennis Sparger 15:43
Well, yeah, they were. Yeah. So they were singing Bach and Handel and personal and Vaughn Williams and Benjamin Britten. And some of the difficulties. Well, last year, we did a piece by Malcolm Williamson with a Bach Society that we did with children's chorus, with orchestra. It's just amazing. But the next year, I had a call and was asked to interview for The Bach Society. Now by that time, Masterworks Chorale had been hiring orchestra players largely from St. Louis. And our orchestra contractor, that is the person who engages all the players distributes the music collecting all of this was Jan Parks, and she was also on the board of The Bach Society. And they were in the process of going through a change. And she suggested that they interview me and of course, no one in The Bach Society on the board had ever heard of me, or Masterworks Chorale, and were a little reluctant. But they agreed to do this. So I came in, and I just told them what I thought and they liked it. And they made me an offer. And I thought, well, I'll do this for a year. So I refused to take any payment until the end of the year because I didn't want it worked into my budget. And that's how it started. And that was 1986, 37 years ago, I never dreamed I would stay this long or they would want me this long. But it has been just a wonderful, wonderful journey. All the incredible people that I've met during that period of time, the amazing music that we've performed the people in the audience who've been so gracious with their donations and supporting you know, we now have an endowment to help the organization survive for long after I'm gone. So it's been a great journey.

Ron Klemm 18:35
One of virtually every choral music lovers favorites. Salvation is Created by Pavel Chesnokov, the Bach Society of St. Louis from a concert in 2011 conducted by Dennis Sparger. That's right. The Bach Society doesn't limit itself solely to the music of Bach, but rather presents music in the spirit and tradition of the master. That tradition continues today. And so does our conversation with Maestro Sparger straight ahead. I'm Ron Klemm. And this is Bach Talk.

Melissa Payton 19:12
Hi there, Melissa here again. I want to take a moment to tell you about The Bach Society's next concert for the St. Louis area led by music director and conductor A. Dennis Sparger. And featuring The Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra, we'll present Eternal Light. This will be an emotional journey like no other, highlighting Howard Goodall's masterpiece, Eternal Light: A Requiem. This concert will also showcase choral favorites by renowned composers, including Ola Gjeilo, Jean Sibelius, and Olaf Christiansen. If you're in the St. Louis area or you plan to be please join us on Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 3 p.m. at the First Presbyterian Church of Kirkwood, it promises to be an unforgettable celebration of music and remembrance. Tickets are on sale now at Bachsociety.org/concerts. We hope to see you there. And now, let's get back to Bach Talk.

Ron Klemm 20:17
You talked about your jazz background at length. And now with your incredible tenure with the Bach Society. I wonder if there's any way to tie those together? How do you see the experiences that you had as a young man and as growing in into music and as an educator and working in all these, these jazz contexts? And now, The Bach Society? How do they come together?

Dennis Sparger 20:47
Well, well, first, I should I should mention, when I started working for The Bach Society, I gave up playing on weekends, I thought I just can't keep all of this going. So that's the one thing that set aside, I guess the, you know, playing in a jazz group, because quite often I played in trios and quartets. You had to listen to one another, respond to one another, work as a team and know that you're not it, you're part of what the it is. And I think that helps us a conductor realizing it's not about me, it's about us. And not just the us of the performers, but us of the audience is well, all of that comes together. The church choir work, you know, they did long ago, made me think, or I guess he gave me the background of knowing you're working with volunteers to a large extent people are giving up valuable time,

Ron Klemm 21:41
It's a sacrifice,

Dennis Sparger 21:42
A sacrifice on their part to be in you have to respect that right, appreciate it, and feed them in a sense of so they're getting something important out of it. So they're getting a spiritual message from the music, we perform an emotional lift, a release from their daily lives and the troubles they have. I remember one of our singers, I probably shouldn't mention his name. He buried his father and came to rehearsal that evening.

Ron Klemm 22:17
I can't imagine it that no, can't imagine it.

Dennis Sparger 22:19
It, it almost brings me to tears to to mention it. But many of our singers are not unlike this, that they're going through personal tragedies of or problems of one sort or another, and crises, and they come to rehearsal, and their lives are uplifted and improved for that time together. Most people come into rehearsal, a little tired.

Ron Klemm 22:44
You bet.

Dennis Sparger 22:45
And by the time they leave, there's a lift in their stuff. And something and many people have told me that they can't go home and go to sleep. They're still up for a while, you know, kind of wired from the excitement of making great music

Ron Klemm 22:57
It's rejuvenating.

Dennis Sparger 22:59
That's a great word. It really is.

Ron Klemm 23:02
Did you, Dr. William Heyne started The Bach Society back in the just when World War Two was looming? Did you ever meet him?

Dennis Sparger 23:13
Yes.

Ron Klemm 23:14
Tell me about that. Tell me what he what your impression of him was what he said to you, perhaps? And what's your recollection of those that time?

Dennis Sparger 23:25
Well, Dr. Heyne was very revered. You know, people just loved him. And of course, he did great things with The Bach Society and had incredible programs that he gave it, you know, they would go into that time to Kiel Opera House now it's called Stiefel, 3500 seats, I think, in those days, and they would have to give two or three performances of events, you know, filling it. But of course, at that time, he was one of maybe just too big choruses in town. Now we have over 40 independent choruses. So audiences are spread a little more thin. Well, anyway, getting back to Dr. Heyne. He was not, he wasn't in good enough health that he could come to concerts to hear them. So I would send him recordings of what we did. And then he would write a little critique to send back to me.

Ron Klemm 24:19
This I can't wait to hear.

Dennis Sparger 24:21
But they all were very positive and very supportive. And he was just so happy that we were doing by Bach, Bach again had become our focus of the organization. It it's the legacy of The Bach Society. Its its history. Its its future. This was so important. And I was having such a wonderful time doing this great and still do, doing this great music. On a few occasions, I went to visit him in his home. He and Vera we're in we're still alive. And this was not long after the first year that I went to see him, to meet him to get to seek his counsel sure on where I should be going with this organization. And I sat down one of the first thing he said to me is, I understand Mrs. Smith is no longer singing with us. I thought, uh no, I did something wrong. I don't recall if her name was Smith or not.

Ron Klemm 25:24
No, no. If your name is Smith. We're not talking about you.

Dennis Sparger 25:29
Mrs. S. And I said, well, well, yes, that happened. I said, you know, I had to audition all the singers because I needed to hear what their voices were like. And she finished and I said, I said, okay, I'd love to have you back as a soprano two. And Mrs. S responded, and she said soprano two, I've always been a soprano one and she left. And he said, and when I heard that, I said, hurray for Sparger. I've been trying to get rid of her for years and years. And we became friends.

Ron Klemm 26:04
That's good. If he were here today, if he were sitting right here, what would he what would he say to you? What do you think he would say to you, or what would you like him to say about you?

Dennis Sparger 26:19
I would like him to say bravo Sparger as he did that day, because I've done I think the best that could be done in keeping the music of Bach in front of the St. Louis people. There is something powerful, uplifting, spiritual, artistic, in the musical Bach that you just don't get anywhere else. It truly is the best. And I think he would have a deep, deep appreciation of them. I recently heard from his grandson. He's living in Grand Rapids. And again, he was so delighted that we continue to do the music his grandfather set in front of us.

Ron Klemm 27:44
Just the final moments of Bach's Mass in B minor, the Dona Nobis Pacem, Grant us Peace, from a concert in 2019 by The Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra conducted by music director Dennis Sparger. In fact, all musical portions today were taken from concerts given by The Bach Society, recorded by our good friend and Grammy Award-winning recording engineer, Paul Henrich subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at Bachsociety.org.

Before we leave you today, a brief and very personal footnote. As I mentioned at the outset, Dennis and I had our conversation in the Sparger's breakfast room, a bright, comfortable place, relaxing and brimming with joy. Immediately after we turned off the mics Helene Sparger. Dennis's wife, best friend, toughest critic and loving partner for 60 years joined us. She lit up that room, just as she did every other and we enjoyed even more delightful conversation. A few months later, Helene contracted what turned out to be a brutal infection that brought about a painful month-long hospital stay, and eventually took her life. One thing I knew intuitively but didn't see fully manifested until that moment. The Bach Society is a family, singers, instrumentalists, staff and board members, sponsors supporters, audience members, friends far and near all became Spargers It was an amazing outpouring of love. The opening concert of the 2023-24 season is made possible by the Sparta family and many friends dedicated to Helene's memory. This will be a difficult season to be sure with emotions so close to the surface, but in keeping with the Bach Society's mission perfect warming music in the spirit and tradition of Johann Sebastian Bach will most certainly provide the greatest comfort of all.

About Episode 1

In this debut episode of Bach Talk, host Ron Klemm sits down with The Bach Society of Saint Louis Music Director and Conductor A. Dennis Sparger. They discuss the formative moments that led Dennis to pursue a life of music from his mother singing to his introduction to the accordion. Join us to hear about the memories, music and influences that make up Maestro Sparger.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm 0:00
This is Bach Talk

the Sanctus from the Mass in B minor by Johann Sebastian Bach.

You're hearing the renowned Bach Society of Saint Louis in concert conducted by music director Dr. A. Dennis Sparger.

Hello, I'm Ron Klemm. Welcome to the first in our series of monthly conversations with the people who make music like this come alive. The Sanctus from Bach's B minor was the first piece Maestro Sparger conducted with a Bach Society back in 1986. He is the longest tenured conductor in the Bach Society's 80 plus year history. So today, appropriately as we begin this series, let's meet the maestro, we sat down in the Sparger's beautiful bright breakfast room, enjoyed a cup of coffee and an extended chat. Full disclosure, Dennis and I have been friends for a very long time. But one fact that took us both by surprise when we first uncovered it, we were born and grew up less than 10 miles from each other in what was then the quiet southern suburbs of Chicago. That meant that we shared many of the same experiences. And so I started our conversation by asking him to describe life, as he remembered it. As a youngster in Harvey, Illinois.

Dennis Sparger 1:52
What I remember is that it was just a wonderful place for a child to grow up. We had such complete freedom in our area, you know, we could get on our bikes, and just ride the complete town. I have a couple of friends and I might drive up into a forest preserve and bring a little lunch with us. And there was no sense of fear that anything could happen to us. Our parents didn't worry. We didn't lock our doors, car doors were left unlocked. So it really was quite wonderful place to grow up. My father was a steel worker. You know, many people in the south side of Chicago, are steel workers. And those were union jobs. Thank goodness, you know, so they paid well enough that a man was able to provide for his family, and in his wife was able to stay home and take care of the family. I'm not sure they all did that by choice. But that's kind of how it turned out for many. You know, so I had a mother that was home taking care of us as we live just a quarter of a block away from the great schools. So we could walk back and forth come home for lunch, watch a little TV, because that was brand new of those days. And then you know, go back for the second half of the school.

Ron Klemm 3:14
What do you remember about your first contact with music? How did you first get involved with music? Or when did music begin to play a part of your life?

Dennis Sparger 3:24
From the beginning my mother was a singer. And she and her sister had done some singing on the radio, untrained. But strange thing I noticed later on in life after I'd studied voice and gotten college degrees. And I would hear my mother sing when she was in her 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and she did things correctly. You know,

Ron Klemm 3:49
What does that mean?

Dennis Sparger 3:50
Well, the voice was free and open. It wasn't encumbered by tensions anywhere. She pronounced things well. So she sang as if she had voice lessons. And she loved to sing and dance. And when I was a child, you know, I would hear my mother and sister you know washing dishes drying and, and singing duets in harmony. So there was always a part of my background. And of course, so I sang in the church children's choir that my mother directed. In fact, I think I have a photo somewhere of us little ones in our white robes and red bows. So that was a part of it all. in grade school. We didn't have much music other than the classroom teacher, you know, having us open up a song book and we all would sing and so I think all of the children in each class had a chance to sing. When I was in eighth grade we finally got a music teacher. But anyway, you know that was that you know we singing a church. Sunday school class always began with all age levels in the same room singing like gospel songs and spirituals and, and hymns. So we got involved in singing through that way before we go to our individual classes for study.

Ron Klemm 5:11
Who do you remember of those early days that that that had a great impact on you that you still remember today?

Dennis Sparger 5:20
Well, probably my music teacher made the big biggest difference. By the time I was eight, mother decided she wanted a trained musician in the family. So it wasn't like I had a choice it was you're going to learn to play music?

Ron Klemm 5:36
Really?

Dennis Sparger 5:36
Yes.

Ron Klemm 5:37
Did she push you in any way? Did you feel? Did you feel pressure in that sense? It's okay.

Dennis Sparger 5:43
No, in those days, you know, you you did what your parents told you to do. There's no pressure. You just did it. But we were well enough off that we didn't have to worry about food or having a roof over our heads or, or having clothes. Although, you know, we didn't buy the newest clothes at all. We we had a few hand me downs. So we couldn't afford a piano in our house. But in South Chicago, the instrument of choice was the accordion.

Ron Klemm 6:17
Why do you look at me when you say that?

Dennis Sparger 6:19
Most people laugh or make fun of people who play the accordion.

Ron Klemm 6:23
Well, I tell you a story because my twin sisters, who are a little younger than me. We're the bee's knees. In Hammond, Indiana when when they had to take accordion lessons, and everybody wanted a picture of these twins playing the accordion.

Dennis Sparger 6:39
You know, did they go to Rumba brothers?

Ron Klemm 6:42
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Dennis Sparger 6:44
Yeah. Well, A.J. Rumba was my teacher.

Ron Klemm 6:47
Oh my God.

Dennis Sparger 6:48
Now that now the beauty of the accordion for for the working class was that you sign up for six beginners lessons, right. And they and they loan you, you know, you don't rent they loan you a small accordion, that doesn't have too many keys, and we'll all the buttons on the left side there only 12 buttons to rows of six. So you're not going to get too lost. And that amount of time. And at the end of six weeks, you've done well enough that you can turn that in. And then you rent a larger instrument that has like 48 buttons instead of 12. And a little bit longer keyboard, and then you start paying for your lessons and you start growing. And a few years later, you're ready to buy a used instrument that's a little bit bigger yet. And after another a couple of years, if you're doing really well, you're ready to buy a really fine instrument. So that's kind of how I progressed through it. But my teacher, Mr. Rumba, was very wise, a Hungarian trained musician, he and his other brothers, you know, moved to South Chicago and started this music school. He knew that my mother was the key to all of this. So he would assign me a piece that my mother wanted to hear and assign a piece that was good for my musical growth. So every day of the week, Mother would sit with me and listen to the piece that she wanted to hear and then suffer through the one I really had to practice. But this kept things motivated. Now, the downside of this was that every day after school, I'd have to come home and practice for half an hour. A year later, 45 minutes, a year later an hour eventually was an hour and a half. So I didn't get to go play ball with all the kids after school. So by the time I got there, you know the game was ending. So that was the sacrifice that had to be done.

Ron Klemm 8:45
We're talking to Myron Floren or I'm sorry to Dennis Sparger, I'm Ron Klemm, and this is Bach Talk.

When did the accordion become ancillary to other things in your musical life? When When did you put that away and start doing other things?

Dennis Sparger 9:19
Ah, well, I must have been it at least in the sixth grade by then, that my teacher began working on the harmonization of a melody. You know, so you could look at music they would have the melody only. And chord symbols above the chord symbols like C seven, B flat minor would tell you what to do with the left hand in finding from the various rows, like six rows of God, I don't know how many all to find that and in the right hand, how to find the harmony to fill out the melody.

Ron Klemm 9:57
Maybe we should do a little bit of definition here man at the right hand, we had a keyboard, keyboard, keyboard. And so you'd play that on a on a vertical vertical rather than horizontal. But the left hand those buttons were actually chords of different kinds, we would play multiple notes at once, right?

Dennis Sparger 10:14
Right, right, the first two rows would be bass notes. And then as you go back to the next four rows, you'd have a major chord, A minor chord, a dominant seventh chord, and a diminished chord. And all of these are different qualities of harmony. So you learn where all of that is. But then you also had to learn on the right hand, the keyboard hand of how to fill in the harmonies, to enriching the sound of the melody. And I think by the end of the sixth grade, he said, Okay, it's time for you to play in a band. Oh, we didn't mention, there was an accordion band at the Rumba music school. And this would be like 30 or 40 Kids, all sitting in chairs with music stands, and we'd play our individual melodic notes. So we learned how to keep time with a conductor doing all of this. Well, anyway, at least by the seventh grade, he wanted me playing in a small band. So I assembled a few other boys that were from our grade school where we could get together. So I had a tenor sax and a drummer. And we'd meet in our basement and practice, we buy these little books that would have the swing songs, the kinds of things that people dance through. By the time I was in high school, I was picked up by a quartet that needed a fourth player. And almost every weekend, we were playing for a wedding reception or teenage dance or an adult dance. So I started earning my way through high school already. By my second year in high school, I was invited to play in a big band, our high school had a 13 piece dance band that played a one and a half hour dance after every home football and basketball game.

Ron Klemm 11:59
This is Thornton high school, high school, Harvey, Illinois.

Dennis Sparger 12:02
Yeah. And we all were paid to do this. Now $7 Doesn't seem like Oh. But I guess it would be like it was $70 or more in today's money. And we were able to go out afterwards and have pizza and sodas with a girlfriend. And the next night, you could go to a movie and out for pizza and we ate a lot of pizza. And of course in Chicago pizza was really good. So it really was a really nice opportunity by the end of that first year. And of course, you know, playing out accordion with a big band a little weird. But by that time, I had a professional model accordion, and it could plug into an amplifier, this would plug into the school system, play through the entire gymnasium, blow them out of the water. Yes, yeah. So the end of the end of end of that second year, or my first year with the band, they said, you know, Denny, we're going to have a piano player next year. And I thought, I don't want to lose this job. So I told my dad, he said, Okay, we'll get a piano. So we went out and found an old upright piano that someone didn't want, and we got it carried into the basement. And he also bought a tuning hammer. And he said, Okay, now you've been taking lessons to the piano. Ah, well, I tuned it to perfect fifths, which meant in the key of C, it played very nicely. Oh, sure. But a lot of swing music is in B flat or E flat, or it sounded terrible. So we eventually had to get a real tuner to come in and do it. But I started taking piano lessons next. And I had a wonderful teacher in Chicago Heights who played in the orchestra at WGN. And in those days, you know, radio stations had an orchestra. They'd play live, believe it or not.

Ron Klemm 13:52
They had live music because they didn't have tape. Yeah, was all right.

Dennis Sparger 13:56
So these teachers in Chicago Heights were all wonderful teachers and players. So I got a pretty good start and realized that I could major in piano when I went to college.

Ron Klemm 14:20
So now, let's talk about the moving now from the accordion into the piano and eventually into moving into this direction that your mother had earmarked for you into the profession of music. How did that give us an idea of how that all transpired?

Dennis Sparger 14:38
Oh, well, well, as it turned out, I was ambidextrous. I could play the accordion and the piano.

Ron Klemm 14:43
Well, at the same time, you were learning the accordion, you had the right hand down.

Dennis Sparger 14:47
My right hand was down so you know the left hand edge and to try to catch up which it has never done. Well in high school, you know, I sang in the high school choir. I played double bass in the high school orchestra. In my third and fourth years, I had a full year for credit of music theory. And the next year, a full year for credit of music history.

Ron Klemm 15:11
Wow.

Dennis Sparger 15:11
So, you know what a wonderful background you're ahead of most, you know, in so many schools No, you don't get any music at all, no. Or you're lucky if you can participate in one, but not in two so and wonderful teachers and, you know, got a really good background. Now, no one in our family had gone to college. Or hardly high school, you know, my father had to leave school in the eighth grade to work in the brickyards when his father was injured and couldn't work anymore. My mother went to high school for three days. And because other kids laughed at her because she was wearing homemade clothes, she just couldn't take it anymore. So she dropped out and started getting into housecleaning to, to get by. A few of the guys that I played with in small bands when they left high school, they were older than me, they went to Eastern Illinois University. So that's the only school I was aware of. So that will I guess that's where I'm going. And, and I thought I probably would wind up being a teacher. So I applied for a teacher scholarship. And in the early 60s, there was a great need for teachers, all kinds of teachers in Illinois. So the state government provided scholarships for anyone who was going to major in education. So I majored in music education, got a wonderful scholarship, and my tuition was like $60 a year. Today, we just complain about, oh, we need teachers, we don't do anything to help it happen. But so that's how I wound up it Eastern. It was a very small school. In those days, I think the student population was about 1200. And it's been well over 10,000 years since. In fact, when I was there, the library was so far south, no one went there. And now it's well north of center. But almost every teacher I had was a PhD. It was like, you know, the Harvard of the Midwest, you know, all these wonderful faculty members that I think loved being in this small, rural environment. So I had, you know, wonderful music teachers of great piano teacher, wonderful choral director.

Ron Klemm 17:22
Let's get specific about that. Who are the ones that stick out for you that had a that had a major influence in your life?

Dennis Sparger 17:29
Oh, well, well, Mr. Satterthwaite, in high school was my history teacher. And he just cultivated a love of history. And while I'm not a musicologist, you know, I love digging into information about the past. So, you know, learning more about the 18th century in the 17th century, and feeling like I have a grasp of this, and I think he kind of helped develop that. My choral director, Mr. Armbruster, you know, we didn't know their first names.

Ron Klemm 17:59
No, no.

Dennis Sparger 18:00
We wouldn't have dreamed of using them. He just gave some quality music and in high school singing Chesnokov salvation is created in English, of course, and hearing that rich eight part harmony, and that Russian liturgical music just was so inspiring. And our orchestra director, Mr. Chambers, you know, we play you know, fine music. You know, we had Christmas concerts, where all the musicians who were involved in this huge gymnasium of putting on Christmas concerts, all of these things were so effective. But in college, John Mahard was the choral director, he had the most beautiful hands for conducting. I can't even come close to the expressiveness of how he could move his hands. He was from Ohio, and went to Capitol University there, and I must have had a great background himself. And, and he just shared all of this wonderful music with us. My piano teacher was Alan Allovall. And I think he recognized that would never be a great pianist. But his teaching could help me become a much better musician, and taught me much about phrasing of seeing a longer line to the music rather than just one measure at a time. And I could also talk about politics, which was fun in those days, when we had our first son. I named him after John and Ellen, these two important teachers in my life. That's another beautiful thing about Eastern Illinois University in those days, is that it was small enough that they all music students had to participate in everything, you know, so although I wasn't really geared up for playing, you know, in the orchestra, you know, I wanted to focus on choral music. I had to sing in a couple of the choirs and I had to play in the orchestra. We had to take strings class so by the second year they said, Okay, you're gonna play cello and double bass. We can get another bass player we need a cellist. So I eventually worked my way up to the second position. Because whenever I made a mistake sitting in these back rows, I would look behind me and the conductor. Dr. Earl Boyd, wouldn't you think, Oh, God, he must know what he's doing. He couldn't really hear these mistakes. So he moved me forward. I never became terribly good at Sharla but I enjoyed playing and playing something like Barber's Adagio for Strings when it for a young person well, and Howard Hansen's Symphony Number two the romantic

Ron Klemm 20:42
Wow

Dennis Sparger 20:43
Yeah, well, you know, so really remember those things. I remember doing the Fauré Requiem with the choir. And we only rehearsed parts of a different movements at different times as a singer resident as a singer as a singer. And because of timing, I don't know what was going on. I never heard it covered a cover until we performed. So I learned to not do that. But it was a great experience.

Ron Klemm 21:36
Just a sampling of the Agnus Dei, from the Requiem by Gabriele Fauré from a concert in 2016, at the Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis, the Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra conducted by music director, Dennis Sparger. We're in the middle of an extended conversation with Maestro Sparger. Next time, we'll pick up where we left off. We'll learn much more about the choral groups that he founded and established about his becoming the sixth music director in The Bach Society storied history and about his memorable meetings with Bach Society founder, Dr. William Heyne.

Dennis Sparger 22:14
Dr. Heyne was very revered people just loved him. On a few occasions, I went to visit him in his home, to meet them to get to seek his council sure on where I should be going with this organization.

Ron Klemm 22:27
If he were here today, what would he say to you?

We'll hear the answer next time on Bach Talk. Musical portions provided by Giulio Fazio, by pianist Sondra Geary, and by The Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra, captured in concert by Grammy Award winning recording engineer Paul Hennerich. I'm Ron Clem Bach talk is a trademark of the Bach Society of St. Louis. Subscribe to Bach talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at bachsociety.org.

Episode Transcript

Ron Klemm (0:05)
The majestic music of Bach

Ron Klemm (0:12)
the renowned Bach Society of St Louis.

Ron Klemm (0:30)
The gripping opening, the curio from the monumental Mass in B minor, by Johann Sebastian Bach.

Ron Klemm (0:39)
It was the first masterwork ever to be performed by The Bach Society of Saint Louis. More than 80 years later, The Bach Society remains an iconic performing arts organization.

Ron Klemm (1:03)
Dedicated to the great works of Bach and all who followed The Bach Society, he continues this incredible legacy today, performing music designed to inspire the human spirit.

Ron Klemm (1:16)
Now, The Bach Society introduces a monthly podcast to better tell its story. I'm Ron Klemm, and I'll take you behind the scenes. In upcoming episodes, we'll learn much more about Bach and his music. And I will introduce you to some of the people who breathe life into this amazing music.

A. Dennis Sparger (1:40)
There's something powerful, uplifting, spiritual, artistic, in the musical Bach that you just don't get anywhere else. It truly is the best.

Ron Klemm (1:55)
That's Dennis Sparger, music director and conductor of The Bach Society. In the coming weeks, we'll learn much more about Maestro Sparger, including some surprising things he learned early in his career.

Dennis Sparger (2:07)
I guess, you know, playing in a jazz group, because quite often I played in trios and quartets. You had to listen to one another, respond to one another work as a team. And know that you're not it. You're part of what the it is. And I think that helps us a conductor realizing it's not about me, it's about us. And not just the us of the performers, but us of the audience is well.

Ron Klemm (2:36)
Dennis and I will talk with guest artists too. We'll find out all about them, including what motivates them

Michelle Kennedy (2:42)
To reclaim our sense of joy every day,

Ron Klemm (2:45)
Like soprano Michelle Kennedy.

Michelle Kennedy (2:47)
Not just an act of empowerment, but an act of reclamation of what it means to be alive. What it means to do this amazing art form to present it to be on the stage to share it with our audiences. It's it's a privilege, it's an honor, and I always do well to just have a smile. And remember why I love it so much.

Stephen Morscheck (3:16)
My voice teacher at Wheaton College assigned to me for my senior recital, one of Bach's great solo cantatas for the bass voice, Cantata 82, Ich habe genug.

Ron Klemm (3:30)
That's bass baritone, Stephen Morscheck.

Stephen Morscheck (3:33)
And I loved the piece. And apparently, my teacher thought that it really fit me like a glove because he said to my mother, something to this effect that he's heard many people sing Bach, but your son sings Bach. And he never actually said that to me. That was my introduction to Bach.

Josefien Stoppelenburg (4:04)
What's so wonderful about groups like the Saint Louis Bach Society.

Ron Klemm (4:08)
Dutch soprano, and guest artist Josefien Stoppelenburg.

Josefien Stoppelenburg (4:12)
I think choral singing is just one of the most magical things on the planet, just people singing together. Actually, I remember during the pandemic, I would have these dreams of just people around me singing. I think I just missed that a lot. And you know, every sort of people on the planet have sung as far as we know, it's just such a deep human thing. And there is really some magic to it, especially when you hear it life. Recordings are fantastic, but a life experience with singers around you. I think it resets your monocular structure in some way. It just does something to your body, to hear that.

Ron Klemm (5:07)
From conductors and soloists to choral singers and orchestra players, music scholars, even audience members will chat with the people who make the Bach Society such a vital part of the cultural life in St. Louis.

A. Dennis Sparger (5:22)
This is Dennis Sparger, music director and conductor of the Bach Society of Saint Louis. Even though we've been around for a long time, the Bach Society is always looking for new ways to tell our story. Today, we're thrilled to launch Bach Talk, our new podcast to our buck family and well beyond. I hope you'll make it a point to subscribe and listen to every podcast as it's released. I think you'll find them enlightening and entertaining. Plus, you'll gain a new appreciation for Bach for The Bach Society of Saint Louis, and for the music-making process. Ron and I will see you again next time.

Ron Klemm (6:12)
Musical portions provided by The Bach Society Chorus and Orchestra recorded in concert. Bach Talk is a trademark of The Bucks Society of Saint Louis. Subscribe to Bach Talk wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at Bachsociety.org